Which is more difficult to over come, Hard over rudder or rudder missing?
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Which is more difficult to over come, Hard over rudder or rudder missing?
The recent A310 rudder loss brought a question to mind.
Which condition is harder to overcome inflight?
A hard over or nosed over rudder?
or
A rudder that has completely broken away?
In each case, they have been known to cause "accidents",
but I would be curious to know your personal experiences if you have had to deal with either problem or what your preference would be?
Which condition is harder to overcome inflight?
A hard over or nosed over rudder?
or
A rudder that has completely broken away?
In each case, they have been known to cause "accidents",
but I would be curious to know your personal experiences if you have had to deal with either problem or what your preference would be?
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Both could be rather bad...depending
A full rudder hardover certainly has been a real problem in years gone past.
AA had the first on a civil jet, I believe.
A B707 did a half gainer into Jamaica Bay, as a result.
OTOH, if the rudder was completely gone due to a structural failure, control might indeed not be too difficult, provided all engines remained operating.
If the fin departed also, the outcome might not be so pleasant.
AA had the first on a civil jet, I believe.
A B707 did a half gainer into Jamaica Bay, as a result.
OTOH, if the rudder was completely gone due to a structural failure, control might indeed not be too difficult, provided all engines remained operating.
If the fin departed also, the outcome might not be so pleasant.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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As you know the DC9's at Pitsburg,and Colorado springs,and other all suffered from UNCONTROLABLE hard over rudders!!
Whereas the B52 suffered the loss of Half the Fin and rudder and flew home
Whereas the B52 suffered the loss of Half the Fin and rudder and flew home
Warning Toxic!
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After the 737 accidents, we practised rudder hard overs in the simulators to be prepared as much as possible. I seem to recall it was very hard to handle at higher speed, but as you slowed down with flap it became easier when the event happened. It helps when you are expecting it as an exercise, and there is always a question mark as to how accurately the simulator can duplicate the event. At high speed, you are likely to lose the fin altogether and become totally unflyable. In short, a dreadful experience that is totally sudden and unexpected.
"If the fin departed also, the outcome might not be so pleasant."
Yes, I'm sure JAL would agree with you!
Yes, I'm sure JAL would agree with you!
I would imagine that the biggest difference between the two scenarios is that with a rudder hardover you have asymmetry to overcome - possibly without rudder trim to assist depending upon aircraft type. With a missing rudder, directional control would still be available with ailerons, spoilers and even differential thrust.
Many aircraft have survived missing rudder incidents, most notably Concorde on several occasions.
Many aircraft have survived missing rudder incidents, most notably Concorde on several occasions.
