2 engines 4 longhaul
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: France
2 engines 4 longhaul
http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4869
Please do not start an A vs B war.
Car engines are much more reliable and economical today that those of 80s. Better design, better lubricant, better materials and better electronics are the key of this achievement. Same story for airplane engines.
Can we imagine one engined short haul airplanes in the future ?
Please do not start an A vs B war.
Car engines are much more reliable and economical today that those of 80s. Better design, better lubricant, better materials and better electronics are the key of this achievement. Same story for airplane engines.
Can we imagine one engined short haul airplanes in the future ?
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: The Netherlands
I think this will possible of course (technically).
But I doubt it if it's wise to do so. If you for instance look at the passengers...I think they will be much more at ease if they board an aircraft which has multiple engines instead of one. Because according to a passenger there can always go something wrong with an engine. And this is true ofcourse. The engine can be affected by various factors. Factors on which you don't have any influence (like a birdstrike). So it's always nice to have a backup, i.e another engine.
Despite that engines are very reliable, I don't see one engined short haul airplanes in the future.
Ciao, Lil' P
But I doubt it if it's wise to do so. If you for instance look at the passengers...I think they will be much more at ease if they board an aircraft which has multiple engines instead of one. Because according to a passenger there can always go something wrong with an engine. And this is true ofcourse. The engine can be affected by various factors. Factors on which you don't have any influence (like a birdstrike). So it's always nice to have a backup, i.e another engine.
Despite that engines are very reliable, I don't see one engined short haul airplanes in the future.
Ciao, Lil' P
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Snowland
Single engine Airliners? Not for a loong time.
There has been studies of single engine business jets, wich might be a good thing, but flying single engine in an airliner is something different.
Once there was a very likely scenario of loosing one engine (late piston, early jet age) and loosing an engine on a transatlantic flight was, well not common but hardly uncommon. Therefore the requirment for several engines. Now we consider the chance of loosing a single engine very remote, loosing two engines impossible (almost).
An aircraft has to be redundant and since no airliner can perform a all engine out glide safely (like say a cessna) I hardly think flying with only one engine (to start with) is an option.
There has been studies of single engine business jets, wich might be a good thing, but flying single engine in an airliner is something different.
Once there was a very likely scenario of loosing one engine (late piston, early jet age) and loosing an engine on a transatlantic flight was, well not common but hardly uncommon. Therefore the requirment for several engines. Now we consider the chance of loosing a single engine very remote, loosing two engines impossible (almost).
An aircraft has to be redundant and since no airliner can perform a all engine out glide safely (like say a cessna) I hardly think flying with only one engine (to start with) is an option.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: Over Mache Grande?
and since no airliner can perform a all engine out glide safely (like say a cessna) I hardly think flying with only one engine (to start with) is an option.
Great job by the pilots, regardless of the reasons they were in that situation
Ramasseur des pommes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 823
Likes: 19
From: UK
KBab wrote:
It was probably the Diamond D_JET - link
First flight this year, apparently.
AppleMacster
don’t know if i dreamt it but I’m sure I’ve seen pics (drawings/plans) of this 1 engine business jet. Anyone know what it was or if I’m making it up?
First flight this year, apparently.
AppleMacster
Guest
Posts: n/a
As an FQTV, if asked to travel on any one engined aircraft, the reply would be unprintable.
I don't even like travelling on the lighter turboprops and certainly not light twins, such as the Golden Eagle, specicifally because of my perception of the risks involved in engine failure low, slow and heavy.
I don't even like travelling on the lighter turboprops and certainly not light twins, such as the Golden Eagle, specicifally because of my perception of the risks involved in engine failure low, slow and heavy.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Can we imagine one engined short haul airplanes in the future ?
The decision is nothing more than risk balancing vs economics.
If it can be shown that there is acceptable risk to the users, then the industry will embrace it.
That process is ultimately how our whole life/economy works.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Snowland
dwshimoda
Yeah! And I can remember several incidents/ accidents (label as you wish) where the passangers survived due to pilot skill (and probably a fair amount of luck) operating the aircraft outside of the practiced scenarios, but those scenarios are unique in their own way.
The truth is that gliding an airliner is NOT like gliding a smaller aircraft and quite a few were lost in the earlier days of aviation. however, hats of to the mentioned crew
The truth is that gliding an airliner is NOT like gliding a smaller aircraft and quite a few were lost in the earlier days of aviation. however, hats of to the mentioned crew
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Newcastle
I seem to remember an AirTransat Airbus that glided to land in the Azores a few years ago after total fuel exhaustion...
Great job by the pilots, regardless of the reasons they were in that situation
Great job by the pilots, regardless of the reasons they were in that situation
Of course that could just be the NGC dramatising it for TV.
But like dwshimoda said good job regardless of the situation
BS
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Almost certainly never I would have thought, although Never say........!
There was a similar unrest with Twins flying long haul across the pacific/atlantic et al. which lead to ETOPS. Although becoming massively more reliable, nothing is ever perfect and engines will always break. Therefore, who in their right mind would ever certify a single engined aircraft for long haul ops.
I dont think, (I certainly hope) we will never hear the term ESOPS!
There was a similar unrest with Twins flying long haul across the pacific/atlantic et al. which lead to ETOPS. Although becoming massively more reliable, nothing is ever perfect and engines will always break. Therefore, who in their right mind would ever certify a single engined aircraft for long haul ops.
I dont think, (I certainly hope) we will never hear the term ESOPS!
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 6
From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
**All** of the operations in aviation are predicated on a certain level of acceptable risk, with some operations considered acceptable at higher probabilities of a failure, accident, injury or death. This extends not just to individual risks per part or manner of operation but also the sum of all those risks. The level of risk is ultimately limited by how many $$$ is considered reasonable to throw at the problem.
If/when someone makes an engine & its ancillary installation that has the same or better level of risk as whatever is the (future) current acceptable multi engined level of risk then single engine ops will happen.
No different to the IFR & night single engine turbine vs light piston twin approvals that's happened/happening in the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland and other parts of the world.
If/when someone makes an engine & its ancillary installation that has the same or better level of risk as whatever is the (future) current acceptable multi engined level of risk then single engine ops will happen.
No different to the IFR & night single engine turbine vs light piston twin approvals that's happened/happening in the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland and other parts of the world.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: NE UK
thanks AppleMacster that WAS the plane I was thinking of.
Think 1 engine for passanger transport is a bit scarey. I wouldnt like to know that just 1 little thing was keepin my up the air above the sea/mountains away from places to land.
I remember watching 'Air Crash Investigation' about AirTransat and I seem to remember that it was due to maintenance of the aircraft causing a fuel leak, I also remember that the pilots thought it was a fuel ballance issue and moved more fuel to the fault and lost the lot. I think the only reason that they made it to land was because earlier in the flight ATC had moved there flight a bit more south than the flight plan due to traffic, without doing this the plane wouldnt have made the Azores.
Im typing this from memory, but seem to remember thats what was highlighted on the show.
KBaB
Think 1 engine for passanger transport is a bit scarey. I wouldnt like to know that just 1 little thing was keepin my up the air above the sea/mountains away from places to land.
I remember watching 'Air Crash Investigation' about AirTransat and I seem to remember that it was due to maintenance of the aircraft causing a fuel leak, I also remember that the pilots thought it was a fuel ballance issue and moved more fuel to the fault and lost the lot. I think the only reason that they made it to land was because earlier in the flight ATC had moved there flight a bit more south than the flight plan due to traffic, without doing this the plane wouldnt have made the Azores.
Im typing this from memory, but seem to remember thats what was highlighted on the show.
KBaB
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: France
When will it happen ?
Just wondering if one engined airplane will burn less fuel than a twin.
Okay, when you lose one engine you lose all power. But there must be means to minimize the CONSEQUENCES of powerless landing/ditching. You can reduce the cinetic energy by lowering the falling/gliding speed with parachute or dragchute.
Airplane designers can put engine intake where the risk of bird strike or ingestion is nill or limited.
Okay, when you lose one engine you lose all power. But there must be means to minimize the CONSEQUENCES of powerless landing/ditching. You can reduce the cinetic energy by lowering the falling/gliding speed with parachute or dragchute.
Airplane designers can put engine intake where the risk of bird strike or ingestion is nill or limited.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: Hamilton
2-eng is good
No matter how we debate 2-eng for long haul,
here is the "beef" .
2-eng will always be good for long haul until
something happens.
Let us hope is it does not involve anyone we know.
Money talks , and 777 is cheap to operate.
That is until something happens.
So let us 'pray'..
here is the "beef" .
2-eng will always be good for long haul until
something happens.
Let us hope is it does not involve anyone we know.
Money talks , and 777 is cheap to operate.
That is until something happens.
So let us 'pray'..
Guest
Posts: n/a
As we all know that the diameters of the 737 fuselage and the 777 engine are about the same, all we need to do to get the first single engined airliner is this:
Benefits:
* instant take off performance for the hasty traveller and taxi way users
* advanced bird strike evasion with thrust vectoring
* improved weight capacity at the front desk
* a tool for impressive circular momentum demonstrations
Sorry that I was bored...
;-)
Benefits:
* instant take off performance for the hasty traveller and taxi way users
* advanced bird strike evasion with thrust vectoring
* improved weight capacity at the front desk
* a tool for impressive circular momentum demonstrations
Sorry that I was bored...
;-)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 1
From: Florida
2-eng will always be good for long haul until
something happens.
Let us hope is it does not involve anyone we know.
something happens.
Let us hope is it does not involve anyone we know.