can you really roll at altitude?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Asia
can you really roll at altitude?
My first post after 2 years of reading..first..i’m a wannabe..hence the dumb question..
I’ve recently been to the US and saw on TV (discovery channel) a clip of a 707 doing a barrel roll in Seattel..(I’ve subsequently read Boeing’s history where is a very amusing few paragraphs…)..I also recall reading here that a large asian carrier rolled a a340 over India (although I cant seem to find the link..so if anyone has it please let me know)..my question is..if I recall from the old link, the rudder trim had been run full out and the aileron put in opposite correction..the Captain when he came back after crew rest turned off the auto pilot and the aircraft rolled; BUT..how could it do that at altitude, that’s why there is an auto pilot bank limit?..it should have stalled..? (right) and even though is a positive G maneuver.. how come no one noticed?.. my question therefore is..did this happen, how is it aerodynamically possible..given the altitude…It’s obviously possible, but probable at altitude??
I’ve recently been to the US and saw on TV (discovery channel) a clip of a 707 doing a barrel roll in Seattel..(I’ve subsequently read Boeing’s history where is a very amusing few paragraphs…)..I also recall reading here that a large asian carrier rolled a a340 over India (although I cant seem to find the link..so if anyone has it please let me know)..my question is..if I recall from the old link, the rudder trim had been run full out and the aileron put in opposite correction..the Captain when he came back after crew rest turned off the auto pilot and the aircraft rolled; BUT..how could it do that at altitude, that’s why there is an auto pilot bank limit?..it should have stalled..? (right) and even though is a positive G maneuver.. how come no one noticed?.. my question therefore is..did this happen, how is it aerodynamically possible..given the altitude…It’s obviously possible, but probable at altitude??
Eidolon
Joined: May 2001
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From: Some hole
large asian carrier rolled a a340 over India
Mach 3
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 624
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From: Stratosphere
Quite happy not to do that gentlemen although the comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek.
Thinking about it a little more, then, the relevant aerodynamic variables with respect to a barrel-roll shouldn't come anywhere near the edges of the envelope during this manoeuvre though, should they?
And even if we aren't, the aerodynamics isn't sensitive to \phi!
A dangerous assumption, perhaps, but if a 707 can do it, a 737 probably can. The aerodynamics isn't going to be fundamentally different:
Tex Johnston Print
Thinking about it a little more, then, the relevant aerodynamic variables with respect to a barrel-roll shouldn't come anywhere near the edges of the envelope during this manoeuvre though, should they?
And even if we aren't, the aerodynamics isn't sensitive to \phi!
A dangerous assumption, perhaps, but if a 707 can do it, a 737 probably can. The aerodynamics isn't going to be fundamentally different:
Tex Johnston Print
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 476
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I believe the a/c concerned was a A310 from the national airline of the land of "lah"
Then there was the story about one of their 744's doing something similiar, and the one about the 340 where, in an attempt to balance fuel the FO (obviously straight out of the airline trng college in Adelaide) turned off the hydraulics.......which I understand are now a guarded switch whence prior they were not (as I have never flown a bus perhaps someone could elaborate how this can be done get into their subsequent"pickle")
For those lost geographically, the "Land of LAH" sits on the equator and used to be run by the former "minister for everything"..........very unsavoury place
Then there was the story about one of their 744's doing something similiar, and the one about the 340 where, in an attempt to balance fuel the FO (obviously straight out of the airline trng college in Adelaide) turned off the hydraulics.......which I understand are now a guarded switch whence prior they were not (as I have never flown a bus perhaps someone could elaborate how this can be done get into their subsequent"pickle")
For those lost geographically, the "Land of LAH" sits on the equator and used to be run by the former "minister for everything"..........very unsavoury place
See and avoid
Joined: Mar 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 757
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From: USA
Wasn't some of this discussed already?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=cessna+roll
And what is your definition of "altitude"?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in654028.shtml
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=cessna+roll
And what is your definition of "altitude"?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in654028.shtml
SpaceShipOne rolled 29 times before Melvill regained control. The remainder of the flight was without incident, and the landing, flawless.
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: sweden
roll
you can roll about anything if you do it right. I know airbus have banklimiters to 60 degrees but I also know there is a dvd that one can buy with an instructor rolling an A320 in a full motion sim at sas flight academy.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 21
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From: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Quick correction to Fire Wall's facts
In response to fire wall's quotes.... the A340 which suffered the unfortunate roll over Australia was triggered by the CAPTAIN who turned off the hydraulics instead of the fuel pumps while attempting to balance the fuel... a portugese chap if i recall correctly.
