Mobile phones on aircraft

[Taildragger67]

Hi all,

What's the latest with mobile phones on aircraft?

I seem to recall that EMP from a phone was put forward, but rejected, as a theory behind the TW800 CFT spark.

At what point on the ground does it become safe to operate a mobile phone (if at all)?

If not, why not?

Thanks

[Notso Fantastic]

The current wisdom boils down to 'not with an engine running'- and this is what will be enforced.
Some pilots have been known to experiment with mobile phone useage. It would appear that once airborne and the signal being received by several ground stations, the phone is 'sent to Coventry'. Why this should be I have no idea- maybe to protect the network from being flooded with signals from the same phone. Down on Terra Firma, the network re-appears.

[Old Smokey]

No technical information in this post I'm afraid, but I recently upgraded to Nokia's latest, and there was a clear warning in the hand-book to not use the phone in an aircraft. Perhaps they're only covering themselves legally, but then again, maybe not.

It might be worth your while to contact a reputable mobile phone manufacturer like Nokia, to find the answers you need.

[PAXboy]

Searching the Forums will bring many results, in PAX & SLF, particularly.

Many new phones have an 'Air Mode' that allows you to continue using the organiser, games or whatever aspects but turns off the transmitter. So far, all airlines are barring this as they have no means of knowing the individual units or that the person has indeed turned it off.

Having a phone on in a plane (for a pax) is not worth it. Once the engines and other systems are shut down, any urgent message or calls can be handled long before you even get to your car. Unless you are at a teeny-tiny regional field

As far as I am aware. TWA800 was confirmed as failure of electrical insulation running through the centre tank, coupled with the 'swiss cheese' combination of an almost empty tank that had been heated above normal temps by a prolonged wait on the ground at JFK with the packs running, prior to departure. Again, a serach will tell you. AirSafe.com is one place to start looking.

[spork]

I'd count it as a huge "plus" for any airline to announce that mobiles are off limits after the door is shut. I work in IT and have for a long time felt that the wireless/mobile in-flight arguments are fairly spurious, especially when you consider that some refits/new planes will have wireless networks on board to placate the executive travellers.

However, where can we go to get away from the constant intrusion of these infernal devices? They have their uses certainly, but can we not cope for just a few hours? The cc have enough to do without this pain. Get a life – get a good book!

[Noah Zark.]

Notso Fantastic,

"...the signal being received by several ground stations, the phone is sent to Coventry"

Someone explained to me recently that this a set-up in the Cellnet system to recognise when a mobile phone had been cloned, and to prevent it (the clone) from being used.

[Gerard123]

What about the buzzing noise you pick up through the radios? If 200 odd passengers used their phones in flight the crew wouldn't hear a thing ! That's the only reasonable answer I can think of, because it happens to me often.

[ettore]

I also read some time ago on pprune about possible interferences with cabin air pressure gauges.

Up to now, I though airlines were mainly forbidding cell phones during flight because they would not take any security risk. But it was also obvious they were eager to keep a monopoly on air-ground transmissions, they could bill to the pax at infamous rates.

Now: is allowing pax to use their cell phones during flight a technical or a marketing move ?

[phnuff]

Have a look at this discussion of the issue

http://www.ipaccess.com/ipaccess_200...e_sky_bts.html

[Taildragger67]

Spork - it wasn't me!! Rather the punter in the row behind. I agree with you completely - I quite like a few hours of non-contactability.

Gerard - my thoughts exactly. The chap in the row behind chose to turn his Blackberry on as we were waiting to cross 27L at LHR and the thought crossed my mind that some instruction like 'expedite' may have been drowned out by 150 little 'beep-beep-beeps' in the pilot's earphones.

Hence my question. I nearly had a go at him but thought it best to let this one go and get my facts straight for next time.

Thanks all.

[Black Ally]

Something to add to the "mobiles on aircraft debate".

I'm not sure this will improve the cabin ambience!

********

AIRBUS SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETES FIRST MOBILE-TELEPHONE FLIGHT TRIAL AND MULTIPLE WIRELESS-CABIN TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION

Airbus has successfully completed the first in-flight trial of GSM personal mobile- telephones aboard an airliner, paving the way for their future widespread use. The trial, which took place aboard an Airbus A320 flight-test aircraft flying from, and back to, Toulouse, is part of an ongoing technical development project to provide an in-flight mobile telephony service to airline passengers.

In addition to tests for measurement purposes, functional tests were performed in which several different GSM telephones were used simultaneously for both voice communications and text messaging. The trials demonstrated successful communications to and from personal mobile telephones onboard to mobile and fixed telephones on the ground, and to another mobile telephone aboard.

The prototype equipment and software used in the trials were developed by Airbus supported by the telecommunication specialist Icarelink. The signals from the mobile telephone went first to a “picocell” inside the aircraft, next to a computer server that routed them through the Globalstar satellite communications network to the ground, and finally to ground-based telephone networks.

The tests are a major milestone in the offering by Airbus of personal mobile telephones aboard commercial aircraft from 2006. A key objective of Airbus is to provide passenger connectivity at affordable prices. This will mean implementation of affordable technologies, as well as cost-effective, flexible and personalised services for passengers in line with current international mobile-telephone charges.

Additionally, Airbus has successfully completed flight-trials of multiple simultaneous wireless technologies on board an A340-600. The trials culminated a two-year research programme by the Wireless Cabin consortium, led by the German Aerospace Centre DLR and supported by the European Commission.

They used technologies based upon emerging standards - GSM/UMTS for mobile telephony, wi-fi (IEEE 802.11) and Bluetooth for mobile computing services. Inmarsat SWIFT64 was the satellite link to the ground.
GSM service, web browsing, email, and virtual private network (VPN) were all flight tested. Intranet from onboard servers was also demonstrated, as were personal digital assistants (PDAs) for crew use. In addition wireless telemedicine, including a simulated emergency, demonstrated priority communication over other services.
When personal mobile telephones are implemented in Airbus aircraft in 2006, they will complement the email and SMS messaging that is already offered. The technologies demonstrated by the Wireless Cabin research are a further step, and will be considered for incorporation in commercial aircraft as they become mature and affordable.
Airbus is an EADS joint Company with BAE Systems.

********

PS First time poster - be gentle!

[UKpaxman]

If there was a real risk would they not ensure you weren't carrying a phone through the security gate?
Given the law of averages, 200+ pax each carrying a mobile phone, surely someone (or a few) will forget to switch their phone off - I know I've nearly forgotten.

[avioniker]

Here's the FAR again:
If the company you're riding with hasn't tested the device you are not allowed to use it.

The problem is primarily with navigation and flight control systems. Your cell phone signal is stronger than the aircraft system signal. Any defect in the wiring and you could lay the plane over on its back or cause a serious navigation error.

§ 121.306 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Portable voice recorders;

(2) Hearing aids;

(3) Heart pacemakers;

(4) Electric shavers; or

(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.

(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used.

[Doc. No. FAA–1998–4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]

[visibility3miles]

The following adds a bit to Black Ally's post.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ring_airbus_dc

>>Airbus Sees Mobile Phone Use on Planes in 2006

Wed Sep 15,10:56 AM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus reported progress on Wednesday in plans to allow passengers to use mobile phones in flight, beginning in 2006.
_
Test equipment aboard an Airbus A320 plane demonstrated that mobile phones can be used without interfering with navigation systems, it said.

Mobile phones onboard were used to send and receive calls and texts using mobile and fixed telephones on the ground and other mobiles onboard, the Toulouse, France-based company said in a statement.

"The tests are a major milestone in the offering by Airbus of personal mobile telephones aboard commercial aircraft from 2006," it said.

Personal digital assistances (PDAs) and other wireless devices were tested in a separate trial which capped a two-year study by the Wireless Cabin consortium led by German Aerospace Center DLR, it said.

While falling fares drive simpler service on short flights, airlines competing on intercontinental routes are turning to innovations such as Internet access, flat beds and better music and video systems to distinguish their brands.

Airbus rival Boeing Co, for example, has developed Connexion by Boeing, an onboard broadband Internet service.

Germany's Lufthansa launched the Internet service under the name Lufthansa FlyNet in May aboard some planes and aims to have it available on all of its long-haul fleet by the first quarter of 2006.

Airbus's mobile phone trial involved using a small onboard base station, or "picocell," and routing calls via the Globalstar satellite communications network to the ground and terrestrial telephone networks.

Airbus and U.S. firms SITA Inc and Tenzing Communications Inc. announced plans to form a new company in July aimed at helping airlines deploy such technology.

The companies said the aim was to allow passengers to use mobiles, laptops and PDAs on planes and to be billed through their own phone company or Internet service provider. (Additional reporting by James Regan in Frankfurt)

[BigGrecian]

I had a mobile phone against a dash board in the car once, and all the dials went crazy and started flicking like mad. Therefore, I'm not particuarly keen on seeing phones being used on aircraft. However, when flying to Tunisia earlier this year with Thomas Cook
"Please ensure all mobile phones are turned off, the use of air mode is prohibited..."
If air mode is meant to stop the phone sending out signals, what's the point in not allowing passengers to use it?

[dudduddud]

For a case study in why you shouldnt use cellphones in airplanes, go to the TAIC website (New Zealand's NTSB/AAIB) and check out the Chieftain accident at Christchurch. Its on the first page of the Aviation section.

It seems the pilot inadvertantly phoned home a couple of minutes establishing inbound and left a long, long voicemail message. This message continued until impact. The cellphone interfered with the LOC and caused the plane to fly in below the glideslope and crashed short of the field. Casual factors included the failure of the pilot to execute a go-around at DH with no runway in sight.

[419]

Here's a copy of a notice that appeared on our safety board a couple of months ago


On the 29th April 2004, a Super Puma L2 (helicopter) was returning from offshore. As it was on the approach to it’s destination airport, a passenger used his mobile ‘phone. This resulted in the loss of all flight and navigation information on both pilot’s Integrated Flight Display System screens lasting one second during this critical phase of flight.
It also resulted in the loss of flight data into the aircraft’s Health and Usage Monitoring System. This is NOT an isolated occurrence; another incident has been reported on an S76 helicopter – a mobile ‘phone (not switched ‘OFF’) was placed in baggage and duly loaded into the hold. This resulted in a false engine fire warning during the flight.

Regulatory Reminder.

The UK Civil Aviation Authority carried out tests on two parked aircraft to find out the potential dangers of mobile ‘phone use. It found evidence that they produced interference levels which could disrupt aircraft systems. Faults attributed to mobile ‘phones include false cockpit warnings, malfunctioning of aircraft systems, interference in pilot’s headsets – all distracting the crew from their primary task.

In June 2003, a man was sentenced to 12 months in prison after being found guilty of ‘recklessly and negligently’ endangering a British Airways flight. The jury heard that the man, an oil worker, had repeatedly refused to switch off his ‘phone after being spotted with it on a Boeing 737.


Capt ***** *****
Group Flight Safety Officer
**********.

[rolling20]

9/11

something that always intrigued me about mobile phones and the fact that no one has ever picked up on it,was their use during that awful day in september 2001.
it was well documented at the time that many passengers were in contact with loved ones/authorities when the planes were hijacked.
obviously we will never know exactly their effects that day..apart from giving the authorities the first clues as to what was going on.

we know the last a/c crashed into a field,we have been told due to passenger action.we are lead to believe that mobiles intefere with a/c navigation systems whether this is true or not,it did not affect the outcome on that terrible day.however if all we are told about mobiles is true,then you would at least think their use could have affected the course of history that day.

[Astra driver]

The USA magazine" Air and Space Smithsonian" did an article on this recently and is well worth reading. One thing I picked up from it that is of interest is that while cell phones transmit and receive on a much higher frequqncy than those used by aircraft nav/coms, the phones do issue a spurious side band transmission right in the 120 khz range which would be heard by pilots as a buzzing sound.

[QSK?]

Christchurch NZ Crash

Hi All:

The TAIC of NZ report into the crash of an IFR PA31 conducting an ILS approach at Christchurch is significant to this thread, particularly with respect to Safety Recommendation 064/03 regarding the use of cellphones in flight.

Apart from the fact that the pilot appeared to be using his cellphone at a critical phase of flight, TAIC has also concluded that the cellphone signal could also have impaired the GS signal, possibly contributing to the crash.

Go to:
http://www2.taic.org.nz/InvDetail/03-004.aspx

PS: Just noticed dudduddud has also pointed to this incident.