A320 Take off Flaps
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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A320 Take off Flaps
hello,
I would like to know what is your airline policy regarding the use of flaps for T/O. What is the normal T/O flaps 1 or 2. And what lead your choose ? low speed? weight!! T/O distance !!! obstacles !!
When airborne, what is the big difference between flaps 1 and 2?
Where can I get climb performance vs flaps setting for airbus !!
Thank
I would like to know what is your airline policy regarding the use of flaps for T/O. What is the normal T/O flaps 1 or 2. And what lead your choose ? low speed? weight!! T/O distance !!! obstacles !!
When airborne, what is the big difference between flaps 1 and 2?
Where can I get climb performance vs flaps setting for airbus !!
Thank
Join Date: Jan 2001
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GL...
To be correct, you never take-off the A320 with Flaps 1 - that is a landing / approach setting. You usually take off with Flaps 1+F - an altogether different configuration!
We (BA) take-off usually using 1+F (but not always - e.g. ABZ) if we use the on-board Perf Manual. If we use the computer link then it gets us to use 1+F,2 or 3. It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to which, but then the speeds seem pretty random too! Whatever, I just fly the thing, and whatever random numbers it gives seem to work....
NoD
To be correct, you never take-off the A320 with Flaps 1 - that is a landing / approach setting. You usually take off with Flaps 1+F - an altogether different configuration!
We (BA) take-off usually using 1+F (but not always - e.g. ABZ) if we use the on-board Perf Manual. If we use the computer link then it gets us to use 1+F,2 or 3. It seems to have no rhyme or reason as to which, but then the speeds seem pretty random too! Whatever, I just fly the thing, and whatever random numbers it gives seem to work....
NoD
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Generally flap 2 seems most common in paper manuals. 1+F is a regular feature also especially on the Airbus electronic performance progam. Flap 3 only used if there are fairly large obstacle considerations.
Having said that..it seem to vary quite a bit by airline!
Having said that..it seem to vary quite a bit by airline!
Clone of Victor Meldrew
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My lot use Flap 3 for most departures even on very long runways!
I suggested use of less flap to save fuel and to reduce the
number of flap 3 overspeeds...but was told.."optimum
performance!"... I am not convinced!!!!
I suggested use of less flap to save fuel and to reduce the
number of flap 3 overspeeds...but was told.."optimum
performance!"... I am not convinced!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It's what you pay for...In the two Co's I've flown the 320(10years)they only bought the performance charts for Flap !+f,and flaps3 for the 'short' runways..Flaps 2 was an option that ,I gather,few operators requested.The 340 on the other hand seemed to utilize flap2 as a norm for the Max weight of the usual runways situ..
On the 320 if one really pushed,use flap3/toga thrust/packs off.This got the most weight of the runway in compliance with the approved analysis charts(distant obstacle clearance)
On the 320 if one really pushed,use flap3/toga thrust/packs off.This got the most weight of the runway in compliance with the approved analysis charts(distant obstacle clearance)
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Using a computerised performance system you get the best performance based on runway length, obstacles ,weight and wx. this will vary from 1+F to flap3. It will also change with the engine fit - we operate V2500 and CFM, often the V2500 will be 1+F or flap2 and the CFM will be flap3.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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There are several Co's that produce the runway analysis charts.'AeroData'pheonix,Jepperson,and that swedish outfit..
Most companies have the chart 'taylored' to their operations for the most Weight/Temperature off the'individual' Alt/Slope runways they use....
Most companies have the chart 'taylored' to their operations for the most Weight/Temperature off the'individual' Alt/Slope runways they use....
Join Date: Apr 2004
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hi all
i know that in some companies they will use the configuration which will give you the highest FLEX temperature for the given conditions. secondly (when 2 configs have same Tflex) they´ll choose the one with the lowest speeds. this is the most economical way i guess.
S
i know that in some companies they will use the configuration which will give you the highest FLEX temperature for the given conditions. secondly (when 2 configs have same Tflex) they´ll choose the one with the lowest speeds. this is the most economical way i guess.
S
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wrenchbender:
i dont fly the airbus yet.
i would say since MEX has a very high density altitude (hot & high). i assume a long enough rwy, dunno. that TOW will mostly be climb limited . conf 1+f gives you the best climb gradient. so i would answer ´yes´.
i dont fly the airbus yet.
i would say since MEX has a very high density altitude (hot & high). i assume a long enough rwy, dunno. that TOW will mostly be climb limited . conf 1+f gives you the best climb gradient. so i would answer ´yes´.
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I'm not sure of the Terrain about Mex,I know it's 7000 or so .AGL.Flaps 1+f are OK if the runway is long enough.As you know flaps3 will get you off sooner,but your 'hot'second segment might suffer.I Remember that 'Canadien'had to do the approach with flaps 3 to meet the goaround performance(3.05.35fcom)
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Thank you gentlemen. The reason I posed the question is that I recently attempted to dispatch an A319 bound for MEX with an ADIRU inop. (Can't recall which one, #3 rings a bell.) As you know, MEL prohibits use of FLAPS CONFIG 1+F in this scenario. We had no spare ADIRU on hand, and the crew refused the aircraft on the basis that they needed to use 1+F out of MEX.
Were they pulling my leg? Perhaps they didn't wish to go flying that day? Couldn't they simply use FLAPS 3?
Appreciate your input.
Were they pulling my leg? Perhaps they didn't wish to go flying that day? Couldn't they simply use FLAPS 3?
Appreciate your input.
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wrenchbender
Probably explanation is they had no Performance figures e.g. in the manual or whatever computer system they use for anything other than 1+F. Less likely explanation is that they did have the figures e.g. for F3, but this did not permit a takeoff at the required weight.
In short, the speeds, Flex and Flap are all related. You cannot pick and choose, or alter any one of these in isolation. A little common sense might apply with a light aircraft, long runway, cool / low altitude and no terrain - none of which apply to MEX!
NoD
Probably explanation is they had no Performance figures e.g. in the manual or whatever computer system they use for anything other than 1+F. Less likely explanation is that they did have the figures e.g. for F3, but this did not permit a takeoff at the required weight.
In short, the speeds, Flex and Flap are all related. You cannot pick and choose, or alter any one of these in isolation. A little common sense might apply with a light aircraft, long runway, cool / low altitude and no terrain - none of which apply to MEX!
NoD
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NoD
Thank you for your explanation. That makes perfect sense, and will satisfy my curiosity for today.
Except..... will someone please come and save my airline, and pay me a decent wage?
Bending wrenches in YYZ.
Except..... will someone please come and save my airline, and pay me a decent wage?
Bending wrenches in YYZ.
