Engine problems on BA jumbos ?
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From: usa
Engine problems on BA jumbos ?
Rumour is that BA has big problems with 747 and 767 RR engines requiring a lot of engine changes.
There are a few glider 747's at Cardiff with many more to follow.
It appears they have run out of engines!!!!! not good for the summer. They don't fly well without engines.
There are a few glider 747's at Cardiff with many more to follow.
It appears they have run out of engines!!!!! not good for the summer. They don't fly well without engines.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: London
It's not like this place to over sensationalise a story!!!
A bearing problem affecting a small number of engines was detected and is being resolved.
This has required a couple of engines to be removed, and a few more may be required.
Get a grip...........
A bearing problem affecting a small number of engines was detected and is being resolved.
This has required a couple of engines to be removed, and a few more may be required.
There are a few glider 747's at Cardiff
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: uk
I work for BA at Cardiff and am happy to tell you that the recent influx of engine changes has nothing to do with engine problems - BA are switching from 'their' age-old maintenance programme (loosely designed around the 747 'classic' maintenance programme, and never really well suited to the -400) to the Boeing standard MPD (Maintenance Planning Document) checks. The MPD has different intervals for planned maintenance to the BA old style checks. Maintrol in London are planning inputs to BAMC to coordinate two to three suitable 747-400 to align each one with its MPD. This involves lots of what seems like pointless ******ing about i.e. swapping aircraft from Hi-J to Low-J (70 business seats to 38) and vice-versa, swapping engines like you would not believe (to align them for scheduled engine changes when the aircraft is in the hangar for maintenance anyway on a C or D check). Then coordinate this with 'Heavy' and 'Lite' aircraft(fuel in stab tank or not, and extended upper crew rest area) added to G or H rated engines as WELL as Heathrow or Gatwick based aircraft (not necessarily true now that the -400 is operated for LHR, but certainly true for the 777s) and you will see that it is a logistical knightmare.
As for the 'gliders' I can honestly say in 7 years at BAMC, all aircraft that I have met on arrival have NEVER had any reports from the flight crew, nor tech log inputs about engine shutdowns/failures, and believe me I have seen a huge amount of them in. I also have a friend who works for GEAES in Nantgarw South Wales where ALL the RB211's are maintained to name only one type, he and I are avid enthusiasts of what we do and a 'sensational' story like this would almost certainly have come up in conversation.
Agreed this is a 'rumours' forum by definition, but lets not give the media anything to bite onto with at least any form of definite proof
As for the 'gliders' I can honestly say in 7 years at BAMC, all aircraft that I have met on arrival have NEVER had any reports from the flight crew, nor tech log inputs about engine shutdowns/failures, and believe me I have seen a huge amount of them in. I also have a friend who works for GEAES in Nantgarw South Wales where ALL the RB211's are maintained to name only one type, he and I are avid enthusiasts of what we do and a 'sensational' story like this would almost certainly have come up in conversation.
Agreed this is a 'rumours' forum by definition, but lets not give the media anything to bite onto with at least any form of definite proof
Joined: May 2002
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From: Who can say?
I have been asked to re-open this thread.
I don't really feel that there is much to be learned on the technical side of things, and my feelings are that this thread belongs more in Rumours and News. However, I am open to persuasion.
Just a reminder - this forum is not for rumours about technical aspects of aviation, but for enlightenment and eddyfication.
I don't really feel that there is much to be learned on the technical side of things, and my feelings are that this thread belongs more in Rumours and News. However, I am open to persuasion.
Just a reminder - this forum is not for rumours about technical aspects of aviation, but for enlightenment and eddyfication.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: uk
torquelink, they now all have trent cores. as for ratings, we are still operating both G's and H's. Both engines are identical, all that changes is a pin programming plug on the FAFC and some wire integration in the main equipment centre (on -400). Oh, and a sticker in the cockpit 
its quite easy to switch them back and forth. the only way you'd know is that sticker and the FMC ident page.
hope that helps
its quite easy to switch them back and forth. the only way you'd know is that sticker and the FMC ident page.
hope that helps
Usual disclaimers apply!
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From: EGGW
Sorry moo but not all 211 cores are Trent standard!
Why's everyone been so 'cagey' about this thread?
Fact....There has been a series of failures with EICAS 'eng X oil filter' message, usually on start.
One 744 (the one that taxied into the jetty!) had all four engines robbed for other aircraft.
One aircraft is flying with a QF engine on lease.
One aircraft was 3 engine ferried back from Madras now back in service!.
It is a build problem from GE. after a mod was carried out I believe to the no 2 bearing to improve life
Why's everyone been so 'cagey' about this thread?
Fact....There has been a series of failures with EICAS 'eng X oil filter' message, usually on start.
One 744 (the one that taxied into the jetty!) had all four engines robbed for other aircraft.
One aircraft is flying with a QF engine on lease.
One aircraft was 3 engine ferried back from Madras now back in service!.
It is a build problem from GE. after a mod was carried out I believe to the no 2 bearing to improve life
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From: UK
Who's being 'cagey'? 'Uninterested' more like! So there is a remote possibility of an oil pressure problem with lots of warning. Not a big problem, and nothing like the Classics of the early days. Hardly a desperate problem- if more spare engines are used, presumably they can be pulled from aircraft on longer term downtime maintenance.
Last edited by Notso Fantastic; 11th May 2004 at 11:47.
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From: UK
Interesting thread. I recently spent 4+ hours on the ground at Bahrain en-route from Doha to LHR, due to a hydraulic leak in the no. 1 engine. Curious as to what happened, and why it wasn't spotted prior to departing Doha. That's not a criticism, just wondering what happened "suddenly."
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From: the edge of madness
Moo
Thanks for the info. Can you shed any light on my follow up which was whether there's an appreciable difference between Trent-cored and not Trent-cored in terms of on-wing life and sfc or is it obscured by engines being pulled early for the other reasons being discussed, not particularly amicably, on this thread!
Thanks for the info. Can you shed any light on my follow up which was whether there's an appreciable difference between Trent-cored and not Trent-cored in terms of on-wing life and sfc or is it obscured by engines being pulled early for the other reasons being discussed, not particularly amicably, on this thread!
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From: uk
alright guys, this thread is turning the wrong way as so many do 
the fact of the matter is that this is a bit of a non issue anyway. BA operate 57 747s (i.e. 228 engines + spares) and the 757/767 fleet are also powered by the RB211, so god knows how many in total. Now try and estimate how many millinons of trouble free hours these engines perform, they are an engineering miracle, tried and tested and certified and fitted to thousands of aircraft around the world. Now think how many have had this small problem associated with them. I think you'd be struggling to find a figure above 1%.
For sake of a minor issue, the media will read it as "BA JUMBOS NOT SAFE TO FLY ON, ENGINES WILL STOP"........
torquelink, I will ask the engine guys in work about your questions, that's a bit beyond my knowledge as I'm an avio!
Sorry gaspath, I stand corrected - I was under the impression that the -400 fleet was all trent core now.
the fact of the matter is that this is a bit of a non issue anyway. BA operate 57 747s (i.e. 228 engines + spares) and the 757/767 fleet are also powered by the RB211, so god knows how many in total. Now try and estimate how many millinons of trouble free hours these engines perform, they are an engineering miracle, tried and tested and certified and fitted to thousands of aircraft around the world. Now think how many have had this small problem associated with them. I think you'd be struggling to find a figure above 1%. For sake of a minor issue, the media will read it as "BA JUMBOS NOT SAFE TO FLY ON, ENGINES WILL STOP"........
torquelink, I will ask the engine guys in work about your questions, that's a bit beyond my knowledge as I'm an avio!
Sorry gaspath, I stand corrected - I was under the impression that the -400 fleet was all trent core now.
Last edited by moo; 11th May 2004 at 12:24.
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From: UK
The aircraft's number one engine had a hydraulic leak and some fluid had been lost. I was curious to know what could have happened that wasn't noticed prior to arrival at Bahrain. I only assume it wasn't noticed at this time, as the aircraft was closed up and ready to depart, the captain had come on the PA and said we were ready to go.
I did not say "Why didn't those idiots up front notice" nor "what sort of second hand rubbish are BA operating" nor "Oh my God, my plane was going to crash too." I thought I'd asked a perfectly reasonable question. Shock horror, I actually DON'T know enough about aircraft engines to understand the above scenario, hence my curiosity.
I did not say "Why didn't those idiots up front notice" nor "what sort of second hand rubbish are BA operating" nor "Oh my God, my plane was going to crash too." I thought I'd asked a perfectly reasonable question. Shock horror, I actually DON'T know enough about aircraft engines to understand the above scenario, hence my curiosity.
Last edited by Captain Stable; 11th May 2004 at 16:05.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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Sorry Moo for diverging a bit more from your enlightened reply but I think I have to stand up and back NSF here.
eal401 said: "Ah yes, the usual dismissive cr*p answer expected on here." but what did he expect from such an inane and ill thought out question in the first place? To quote eal401: "...Curious as to what happened, and why it wasn't spotted prior to departing Doha. That's not a criticism, just wondering what happened "suddenly." Assuming your question wasn't rhetorical, HTF is anyone supposed to answer it? Are you just trying to impress us that you happened to be priveleged enough to be on a BA flight from Doha to LHR via Bahrain? It certainly sounds like that because there was absolutely no content of any worth in your preamble to the question.
NSF is quite right when he points out that things invariably happen 'suddenly'. Had you even considered that the effing hydraulic leak probably started AFTER the a/c left Doha and that's why you were delayed 4+ hours in Bahrain? What happened 'suddenly' was that the hydraulic leak was spotted during the turnaround at Bahrain.
deleted
Thanks for making the point NSF and thanks to Moo for the comprehensive answers to what was obviously an attempt to start a scare story... and we thought the press were bad!
eal401, why not just start a new thread with your question, either here or in the questions forum as it has nothing to do with this thread as had already been answered by Moo.
deleted - a little too abusive from you too, cb
eal401 said: "Ah yes, the usual dismissive cr*p answer expected on here." but what did he expect from such an inane and ill thought out question in the first place? To quote eal401: "...Curious as to what happened, and why it wasn't spotted prior to departing Doha. That's not a criticism, just wondering what happened "suddenly." Assuming your question wasn't rhetorical, HTF is anyone supposed to answer it? Are you just trying to impress us that you happened to be priveleged enough to be on a BA flight from Doha to LHR via Bahrain? It certainly sounds like that because there was absolutely no content of any worth in your preamble to the question.
NSF is quite right when he points out that things invariably happen 'suddenly'. Had you even considered that the effing hydraulic leak probably started AFTER the a/c left Doha and that's why you were delayed 4+ hours in Bahrain?
What happened 'suddenly' was that the hydraulic leak was spotted during the turnaround at Bahrain.deleted
Thanks for making the point NSF and thanks to Moo for the comprehensive answers to what was obviously an attempt to start a scare story... and we thought the press were bad!
eal401, why not just start a new thread with your question, either here or in the questions forum as it has nothing to do with this thread as had already been answered by Moo.
deleted - a little too abusive from you too, cb
Last edited by Captain Stable; 11th May 2004 at 16:07.
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From: uk
And another abusive comment deleted
there is at least one 400 parked at cardiff sans engines,and cardiff has had its overhaul licence withdrawn for BA temporarily.
there is at least one 400 parked at cardiff sans engines,and cardiff has had its overhaul licence withdrawn for BA temporarily.
Last edited by Captain Stable; 11th May 2004 at 16:09.
aka Capt PPRuNe
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From: UK
eal401, may I suggest that you should perhaps have posed your original question with as much detail as the one above. It would also have been much more sensible to have asked your question elsewhere as this thread doesn't seem to be the place.
In a beleated attempt to answer your question, without knowing the a/c type, flight number, date or any other pertinant details, I would suggest that as the before start checklist was being actioned, perhaps the hydraulic pumps were switched on at that point and a hydraulic pipe decided that the sudden increase from 0psi to 3,000psi pressure was more than it could bear and ruptured and only then did the groundcrew inform the F/D that there was a problem.
I only suggest the above as it has happened to me in the past and only thanks to a hastily scrounged engineer from a local airline, having been given a one-off approval by our maintrol to perform a simple hydraulic pipe change, and then yours truly had the laborious task of manually pumping the contents of 20+ tins of Skydrol into the system B reservoir. All takes time and I think you'll find that 4 hours is about right.
Now, can we all calm down and stay on thread?
In a beleated attempt to answer your question, without knowing the a/c type, flight number, date or any other pertinant details, I would suggest that as the before start checklist was being actioned, perhaps the hydraulic pumps were switched on at that point and a hydraulic pipe decided that the sudden increase from 0psi to 3,000psi pressure was more than it could bear and ruptured and only then did the groundcrew inform the F/D that there was a problem.
I only suggest the above as it has happened to me in the past and only thanks to a hastily scrounged engineer from a local airline, having been given a one-off approval by our maintrol to perform a simple hydraulic pipe change, and then yours truly had the laborious task of manually pumping the contents of 20+ tins of Skydrol into the system B reservoir. All takes time and I think you'll find that 4 hours is about right.
Now, can we all calm down and stay on thread?
