A340-600
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A340-600
Can anyone tell me how the A346 is doing now its been in service for couple of years? Specifically how does block fuel and block time compare to a) original estimates and b) to B744. Plus summary of operational pros and cons. All input v welcome.
Thanks
Torque
Thanks
Torque
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I think there is a thread around here that says that Singapore or somebody is really unhappy with what they projected for fuel burn and what they got, but do not know for sure.
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SQ traded in A343's for 772's, Boeing bought 12 A343's from SQ. The remaining 343's have been procured by EK.
The SQ 343's were very heavy operating weight due to a SQ infllight entainment system. Something like an additional 8t from memory.
Z
The SQ 343's were very heavy operating weight due to a SQ infllight entainment system. Something like an additional 8t from memory.
Z
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used2flyboeing
To establish the aircraft type with a leading operator in Asia for other airlines in the region to follow suit. Other airlines in Asia look to SQ and CX for the purchasing decisions and a lot of them follow suit. Hence its good business to get a good established base in these markets, even if you have to do it at a discount.
Should have made it more clear in my previous post, EK purchased the A343's from Boeing, as they could not get enough from Airbus or elsewhere in the market.
Z
To establish the aircraft type with a leading operator in Asia for other airlines in the region to follow suit. Other airlines in Asia look to SQ and CX for the purchasing decisions and a lot of them follow suit. Hence its good business to get a good established base in these markets, even if you have to do it at a discount.
Should have made it more clear in my previous post, EK purchased the A343's from Boeing, as they could not get enough from Airbus or elsewhere in the market.
Z
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I dont tink you are correct on the "getting A340as from Boeing because AIRBUS is low on them" - the world is awash right now in A340-200 & 300's - and Boein airplanes for that matter, AIRBUS as a bucnh of them in the lease fleet - Ive seen the whitetails at Luftansa in Berlin & , Tiegel Hamburg .... with an inch of dust on them to boot ..
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used2flyboeing,
I was aware of 4 A343's in Germany that were available, D-ASIB,D-ASIC,D-AGBM, and D-AJGP. All these aircraft are ex-SQ, and to be leased to EK from Boeing.
I was aware of a privatly owned A340 in germany, painted all white that did not moved for a while, not sure what its up to these days.
A quick look at Speednews shows only two A340's available worldwide. One of them is with Virgin (a 343), the other Lufthansa (a 342).
Torquelink
I think you will find the first A346 to enter service was G-VSHY (SN 383) on July-26, 2002 with Virgin Atlantic. My understanding is they are looked at as a 747 classic replacement, not a 744 replacement. Have not heard of complaints like Airbus had with the early 342&343's. I know some operators getter better economics from their 743's than their 744's, and are investing in them to give them a partial EFIS upgrade to extend their life.
I was aware of 4 A343's in Germany that were available, D-ASIB,D-ASIC,D-AGBM, and D-AJGP. All these aircraft are ex-SQ, and to be leased to EK from Boeing.
I was aware of a privatly owned A340 in germany, painted all white that did not moved for a while, not sure what its up to these days.
A quick look at Speednews shows only two A340's available worldwide. One of them is with Virgin (a 343), the other Lufthansa (a 342).
Torquelink
I think you will find the first A346 to enter service was G-VSHY (SN 383) on July-26, 2002 with Virgin Atlantic. My understanding is they are looked at as a 747 classic replacement, not a 744 replacement. Have not heard of complaints like Airbus had with the early 342&343's. I know some operators getter better economics from their 743's than their 744's, and are investing in them to give them a partial EFIS upgrade to extend their life.
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Torquelink,
a friend works with CX, and apparently the A346 consumes about 20% to a third less fuel on their routes to LAX than the ol` lady (different flight on same day, comparable pax and freighter loads).
Zeke,
what about the three ex-Khalifa AW A343s that are currently with Boeing...?
J.V.
a friend works with CX, and apparently the A346 consumes about 20% to a third less fuel on their routes to LAX than the ol` lady (different flight on same day, comparable pax and freighter loads).
Zeke,
what about the three ex-Khalifa AW A343s that are currently with Boeing...?
J.V.
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A346 economics
Not only does it use 20% less fuel than a 744, but it has double the underbelly cargo capacity and the economics of that advantage must be huge - carries slightly less pax though.
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I heard from a couple of CX captains that the airline was not at all happy with the A340-600. That was about six months ago and could have been just teething problems, does anyone know if there has been an improvement?
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The first 2 -600s delivered to CX are 2.5tonnes heavier than spec but the 3rd has had 1.25tonnes of metal from each wing!
The first 2 have not performed as CX would have liked. They are burning approx 4% more fuel than Airbus specifications.
The word is that CX arent happy that the -600 is not perfoming to spec (not surprises there) but whether it is still profitable enough, I have no idea.
The freight load is larger than the 744 which Im sure is keeping the bean counters very happy.
The CX fit is only 268 passengers (6F, 60J, 200Y) so front end pax numbers are required to keep the margins up.
The 3 x A340-600s are on lease from ILFC (3 years I think).
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Dont know how VS are finding her but as a launch customer there maybe significant kick-backs. No doubt she is better than the A342 they were using.
The first 2 have not performed as CX would have liked. They are burning approx 4% more fuel than Airbus specifications.
The word is that CX arent happy that the -600 is not perfoming to spec (not surprises there) but whether it is still profitable enough, I have no idea.
The freight load is larger than the 744 which Im sure is keeping the bean counters very happy.
The CX fit is only 268 passengers (6F, 60J, 200Y) so front end pax numbers are required to keep the margins up.
The 3 x A340-600s are on lease from ILFC (3 years I think).
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Dont know how VS are finding her but as a launch customer there maybe significant kick-backs. No doubt she is better than the A342 they were using.
A340-600
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Thanks to all for your input. Note that both Cathay and Virgin operate their A346s with some 20% - 30% less seats than their -400s so I guess fuel burn per seat is roughly the same - albeit that the 346 has greater cargo capacity.
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VS are quite happy with the -600s thank you. Some teething problems, as to be expected with a new type, but no show-stoppers so far. VS fit is 315 seats; as mentioned elsewhere cargo capacity is hugely more than 744 - the record so far, (that I'm aware of) is 38t - out of JNB, to boot.
Have not yet bothered to work out seat cost per mile, I'm not that bored, (or sad
) but an engineer told me the other day that it comes in well below the 744. Don't know how much he knows!
Operationally, in round numbers it cruises at .83, compared to the 343's .82, so is slightly faster than the 343 but slower than the 744. Fuel burns on the CLPs have been pretty accurate right from the start, (execpt at low level ie the last 200 miles to EWR!!), so I would assume that it is performing as promised.
As mentioned above, VS has never operated 342s, and the first 346 was delivered a little over 12 months ago - I think it was August last year, but my memory isn't so good any more! Sigh
Hope that helps.
Have not yet bothered to work out seat cost per mile, I'm not that bored, (or sad
) but an engineer told me the other day that it comes in well below the 744. Don't know how much he knows!Operationally, in round numbers it cruises at .83, compared to the 343's .82, so is slightly faster than the 343 but slower than the 744. Fuel burns on the CLPs have been pretty accurate right from the start, (execpt at low level ie the last 200 miles to EWR!!), so I would assume that it is performing as promised.
As mentioned above, VS has never operated 342s, and the first 346 was delivered a little over 12 months ago - I think it was August last year, but my memory isn't so good any more! Sigh
Hope that helps.
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Felix - AIRBUS is notorious about missing weight & performance guarantees - the A340 initially missed its performance guaranees by such a wide marin that Airbus initiated its "Performance Improvemen Program" -aka PIP which comprised a "breast-plate" scab on the bottom of the wings etc. to improve aero. The A340 has a poor airconditioning system - Ive been on several SAS A340s where the cabins were instrumented with data recorders to record the strata in the cabin. that being said, AIRBUS is a great company & if it wasnt for them, weed be riding on 747-400s with condensation water sloshing about in the stowbins in front of door I .