CCTV Question
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CCTV Question
I am in the middle of my final year university project. It is based on risk management looking at airline disasters.
Looking at the accidents where there has been some engine failure/fire/problem. There have seemed to be some consistent failures in the correct passage of knowledge onto the flight deck crew. Specfically the 737 crash where the incorrect engine was shut down, the 1985 Manchester 737 engine fire.
Just as a suggestion what would be the potential problems asscoiated with directing a video camera onto the rear of the engines, with monitors in the flight deck. As an outsider for me an image of the engines in question on both occasions would have left the flight deck crew better informed as to the best course of action.
Looking forward to some expert views !!
Windy
Looking at the accidents where there has been some engine failure/fire/problem. There have seemed to be some consistent failures in the correct passage of knowledge onto the flight deck crew. Specfically the 737 crash where the incorrect engine was shut down, the 1985 Manchester 737 engine fire.
Just as a suggestion what would be the potential problems asscoiated with directing a video camera onto the rear of the engines, with monitors in the flight deck. As an outsider for me an image of the engines in question on both occasions would have left the flight deck crew better informed as to the best course of action.
Looking forward to some expert views !!
Windy
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The same issue was raised following the Kegworth disaster in 1989. Of several recommendations, including advances in crash positions for passengers, the CCTV monitoring of the engines was raised, to date it has been implemented by no manufacturer.
Good thread, any one able to shed more light?
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Big Airways had a 747-100 with 2 cameras; One in the fin leading edge looking down onto the fuselage and wings, and the other, which could be scanned, facing aft under the belly covering the engines and undercarriage. Unfortunately they were unreliable due to the harsh operating conditions....and the aircraft BPU has long since gone for scrap!!
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I don’t think CCD camera technology is up to it.
The latest and greatest super dynamic cameras would be next to useless in the fast changing background lighting involved with aircraft. You would need to go with a B&W camera and infa red light source to guarantee usability in day and night.
If you had an engine fire all you might see on a the camera is a white screen as the light intensity may be to great for it to handle.
No camera to the best of my knowledge is designed to operate in the temperature range involved with flying at altitude.
Heating of the camera housing would be required to remove condensation and ice as applicable. Must camera housings used in car parks etc are heated as dew collects in them throughout the night.
The vibration levels may preclude decent lenses being placed to zoom in as the movement of the camera may be too great. The best lens for this application would be a 9mm 1/3” format, but you need to position the camera correctly to take advantage of it.
More than likely would need to run fiber optic cable to the avionics bay as copper video cable would pick too much interference.
Passengers are scared enough about flying at the moment without getting an outside view of the plan crashing (controlled via a landing or otherwise) so I think it would have little passenger appeal.
I suspect the first use of CCTV cameras on aircraft will be with cockpit access security system bringing up a view of the person on the other side of the door on the systems screens prior to entry, or to record the cockpit actions of the crew on a digital FDR. CCTV cameras are already used as a training aid in flight simulators taking cockpit view and audio for debriefing of students after a ride.
Recording of video is another matter, it very high bandwidth, current digital recorders lack the ability to record images in the decent frame rate and resolution to be of any use. Transmission of video over current ACARS/satellite technology would not be possible, a few frames perhaps but not video.
I cannot see maintenance changing a video tape each time the aircraft is positioned for a new sector. How to you keep track of the tapes, who hold onto them, what measures do you put in place to say the tape/images have not been tampered with.
ALAPA would not like this …..
The latest and greatest super dynamic cameras would be next to useless in the fast changing background lighting involved with aircraft. You would need to go with a B&W camera and infa red light source to guarantee usability in day and night.
If you had an engine fire all you might see on a the camera is a white screen as the light intensity may be to great for it to handle.
No camera to the best of my knowledge is designed to operate in the temperature range involved with flying at altitude.
Heating of the camera housing would be required to remove condensation and ice as applicable. Must camera housings used in car parks etc are heated as dew collects in them throughout the night.
The vibration levels may preclude decent lenses being placed to zoom in as the movement of the camera may be too great. The best lens for this application would be a 9mm 1/3” format, but you need to position the camera correctly to take advantage of it.
More than likely would need to run fiber optic cable to the avionics bay as copper video cable would pick too much interference.
Passengers are scared enough about flying at the moment without getting an outside view of the plan crashing (controlled via a landing or otherwise) so I think it would have little passenger appeal.
I suspect the first use of CCTV cameras on aircraft will be with cockpit access security system bringing up a view of the person on the other side of the door on the systems screens prior to entry, or to record the cockpit actions of the crew on a digital FDR. CCTV cameras are already used as a training aid in flight simulators taking cockpit view and audio for debriefing of students after a ride.
Recording of video is another matter, it very high bandwidth, current digital recorders lack the ability to record images in the decent frame rate and resolution to be of any use. Transmission of video over current ACARS/satellite technology would not be possible, a few frames perhaps but not video.
I cannot see maintenance changing a video tape each time the aircraft is positioned for a new sector. How to you keep track of the tapes, who hold onto them, what measures do you put in place to say the tape/images have not been tampered with.
ALAPA would not like this …..
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Some very useful opinions thanks !!!
I still think that even a black and white camera would be useful. Looking at the 89 Manchester 737 fire - the crew's immediate response to the 'thud' as the engine exploded was that it was a tire break (of which there were no signs to the contuary).
It took 19 seconds after the engine had blown for the flight deck crew to become aware of the actual situation and when the warning lights did come on there was no indication that the fire was uncontained - a far more serious fault that had the flight crew been aware could have initated a different response.
A CCTV camera with a screen in the flight deck in this situation would have made the pilots much more aware of the situation at hand and therefore possibly better able to act on their training. Even if the image was completely white it would still give greater insight.
A similiar situation with the Kegworth 737 crash - I am not sure if the left engine would exibited any visual signs of failure but the right engine certainly wouldn't - a visual image of this may have given the pilots the opportunity to question the information that they were being given. Perhaps key in adverting the disaster.
Again not sure how the flight data recorder works - but I assume that it must be refreashed before each flight...
For me a visual image of the aircraft in these problem situations would be invaluable as surely it presents the pilots with the whole picture !!
Apart from the physical problems of the camera logistics. Would there be any SOP problems - questions over a visual image diverting the pilots attention ???
I still think that even a black and white camera would be useful. Looking at the 89 Manchester 737 fire - the crew's immediate response to the 'thud' as the engine exploded was that it was a tire break (of which there were no signs to the contuary).
It took 19 seconds after the engine had blown for the flight deck crew to become aware of the actual situation and when the warning lights did come on there was no indication that the fire was uncontained - a far more serious fault that had the flight crew been aware could have initated a different response.
A CCTV camera with a screen in the flight deck in this situation would have made the pilots much more aware of the situation at hand and therefore possibly better able to act on their training. Even if the image was completely white it would still give greater insight.
A similiar situation with the Kegworth 737 crash - I am not sure if the left engine would exibited any visual signs of failure but the right engine certainly wouldn't - a visual image of this may have given the pilots the opportunity to question the information that they were being given. Perhaps key in adverting the disaster.
Again not sure how the flight data recorder works - but I assume that it must be refreashed before each flight...
For me a visual image of the aircraft in these problem situations would be invaluable as surely it presents the pilots with the whole picture !!
Apart from the physical problems of the camera logistics. Would there be any SOP problems - questions over a visual image diverting the pilots attention ???
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Airtours B757 G-RJGR to name but one a/c has been retrofitted with CCTV. 2 belly mounted cameras pointing fore and aft give a not very high definition picture displayable on flight deck or indeed in the cabin. No recorder. So it definitely works on a routine basis with no special conditions.
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