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Mobile Telephones in Aircraft

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Mobile Telephones in Aircraft

Old 16th Oct 2003, 20:50
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Mobile Telephones in Aircraft

Since Mobile Phones have been interduced. Airlines have banned them on being ON. But as i have found out that some airlines do not let mobile phones on in the aircraft at all. While some other Airlines let them be ON while the aircraft is on its final parking place at the airport.

So it seems some airlines let theire passengers to use theire mobile phones on the aircraft when its turned its Engines off

can any body help me on the issue
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 21:04
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mobile phones don't work above a cpl of thousand feet so they might as well be off.
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 21:22
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Fact and Fiction

The regulations (what there are of them) regarding the use of mobile phones is a bit mixed up to say the least.
I.E. It is the CAA etc that object to their use on or near the ground (interfere with ILS Etc) but it is the phone companies themselves that object to there use in the air.
Can you imagine the poor little GSM network trying to hand over 300 mobile phones going from cell to cell at over 500 mph? The network would crash!

As was stated earlier, there are no real regulations and only guidelines which can vary from company to company and country to country. Probably from aircraft to aircraft too when you think of the implications in a fly by wire environment.

Don't know about 1000 feet limit. I would say that I can use my phone more than 1000 feet from a cell so I would say that was a load of *****!
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 21:27
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Never heard of mobile phones being physically banned from an airline. Can you imagine the rigamorole (sp?) of searching every passenger? Probably 80% + of passengers take a phone onto a plane.

Incidentally, I was flying between Texas and Illinois once when a lady tried to phone back to Texas to see if the rest of her party had made the next flight. Apparently she couldn't get a signal...
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 21:37
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Quote

but it is the phone companies themselves that object to there use in the air.
Can you imagine the poor little GSM network trying to hand over 300 mobile phones going from cell to cell at over 500 mph? The network would crash!

The primary problem with airborne mobiles is that they can be seen on non adjacent cells on the same frequency simultaneously. This makes the network call routing problematic.
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 21:42
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Here in the US, mobiles can be used until the main door is closed ... and the FAA have just introduced a new relaxation that they can be used right after landing when the aircraft is taxiing. Not sure if all the airlines have implemented this, but Continental announce it once off the runway.

The actual rules (part 91) the FAA lay down is that no electronic devices can be used on an aircraft operated by a air carrier / commercial operator or on a civil aircraft on an IFR flight plan. I guess there must be another exception for game boys or something.

As far as the effective height for cell phone use ... errrrr, text messaging works ok up to about 7000 feet though voice doesn't, so I am ... assured Wasn't me, honest guv !!!
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 22:01
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<<<
mobile phones don't work above a cpl of thousand feet so they might as well be off.
>>>

They clearly worked on 11 September 2001.
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Old 16th Oct 2003, 22:08
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Not if you're a conspiracy theorist...
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 00:45
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In Canada cell phones certainly work at all altitudes as it's the same system I am sure this is the case anywhere.

As others have said it's the phone companies themselves that have the greatest problem with airborne use. As far as interference with a/c systems I think the verdict is still out. There is a system available in the USA aimed at the corporate aircraft world called Aircell. It ties into the existing cell network while on the ground but the difference is that airborne it only hits a limited number of cells so as to not flood the system. I presume it's the same frequency spectrum so I am not sure where that leaves the whole interference thing?
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 01:06
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Mobile Telephones in Aircraft

A few months ago, Mrs BB acidentally left her phone on in her bag when we flew from Gatwick to Dalaman.
Got the phone out when we arrived at the hotel and had several txt mesages from the various countries service providers welcoming us etc. The do work some of the time at least.
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 01:31
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posted 16th October 2003 13:04 ___ _ _ __ _
Blinkz
says...


"mobile phones don't work above a cpl of thousand feet so they might as well be off"


So no one in the Alps or any mountain area can use mobile phones? Don't think you are quite correct there. Didn't realise a mobile phone has a built in altimeter cut-off switch! Or an earth proximity switch!
The power transmitted is so low that I would be surprised if any transponder belting out around 250 watts or any aircraft electronic equipment would be affected.
Another urban myth maybe.

Aviate 1138
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 01:42
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I'm just saddened that people can't be without their telephone for such short periods.

Do these people sleep with them as well?
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 02:01
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Smile Been there, done that.

OK definitive, mobile phones work at altitude (about the same as they work at most lateral distances from base stations.
The biggest risk in the air (but the vote is not out yet as has already been stated) is from the phone registering with cells and networks (that's the characteristic chattering sound you hear on nearby equipment) which is at a higher power than normal calls and messages.

There are a couple of companies out there who are working on making cell phone technology available on board as the airlines would love to be able to do away with the weight of their fixed onboard phones (and save loads of dosh in fuel savings). Since everyone takes their own phones on board anyway.
The system I am aware of would place a very small cell in each aircraft so that phones would register once and then since it is 'captured' the airline can charge the calls at the usual US$12 per minute.

There are some technicalities to work out, not to mention the approval by various authorities.
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 02:09
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I agree with flaps one. Why some people just go without them for the period of a flight beats me.

All countries should do as they do in Germany, that all phones are switched off as soon as the pax board the a/c and not allowed to be turned back on until they disembark

This would solve any differences and it should be made an offence to break the rule.

C.B.
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 02:13
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I never believed the interference excuse. But on the current aircraft I fly I can hear the static over my headset if my FO forgets to turn his phone off and he gets a phone call.
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 03:44
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Angry

I couldn't use my cd player on a flight from london to mauritius (air mauritius A340-300) a few months ago! Now i dont understand why those in first class can use there laptops complete with a power point to plug them in (most come with a cd drive) when i cannot use my cd player in economy! where is the sense in that??? and why didnt the other flight attentants say anything to me even though they clearly saw it or was this guy just fussy?? i understand cd players or laptops cant be used during take off and landing.
however on the return flight (British Airways 747-400) i was allowed to use my cd player (was in world traveller plus and not economy so wondering if that might have had a part to play!!)

On the mobile phone issue. We were only allowed to switch our phones on once engines were off.

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Old 17th Oct 2003, 04:07
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The primary problem with airborne mobiles is that they can be seen on non adjacent cells on the same frequency simultaneously. This makes the network call routing problematic.
I am not sure thats quote true. GSM phones are always seen by > 1 cell at a time, however the phone itself decides which one to work at any one time. Equally, the frequency is not an issue. A mobile phone divides its calls on timeslicing as much as anything (TDMA for GSM and CDMA for 3G). I am gonna check the real reason with a mate who is a network engineer fir a GSM operator
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 04:36
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Do these people sleep with them as well?
Only if its switched to vibrate.....
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 04:59
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Here in the US, mobiles can be used until the main door is closed ... and the FAA have just introduced a new relaxation that they can be used right after landing when the aircraft is taxiing. Not sure if all the airlines have implemented this, but Continental announce it once off the runway.
Southwest airlines has implemented the after landing use of phones policy. Folks LUV it as they can call for their rides, pickups or let the family know what time to expect them.

As for the interference of cell phones (or other transmitting devices) with aircraft systems, the issue is still cloudy. There appears to have been anecdotal stories of ILS anomalies traced directly to use of cell phones in the cabin. Yes they don't transmit much power or at the exact frequencies as our systems are set up to receive but they are a lot closer to the antennae as well as being close to wiring routed nearby.
Since we can't certify every single transmission device at all seat positions and combinations the prudent thing for the FAA etc to do is just ban them.

Let the debate rage.
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Old 17th Oct 2003, 05:14
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In flight GSM prototype by Q1 2004

Zaptin is this the system you have heard of or another one?

http://www.ipaccess.co.uk/pdf_files/...Altobridge.pdf

It was announced this week at ITU Telecom.
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