DH Trident question?
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DH Trident question?
Just read an interesting article about the Trident. I think its a real classic! As a 727 pilot, I'm interested about the controversy surrounding the alleged copying of the trident design by Boeing. Also any comments concerning why the Trident didn't do well commercially, how it was to fly etc....
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Apparently it was designed as a 727 size A/C but B.E.A. (British European Aiways) decided it was too big and insisted it was re-designed to their specifications. The result was non too successfull, great at coming down but required the curvature of the earth to get airborne and had a poor range.
Many of the folk I have flown with still shed a tear at the mention of the word 'Trident', it was B.E.A. you see.
Regards
Exeng
Many of the folk I have flown with still shed a tear at the mention of the word 'Trident', it was B.E.A. you see.
Regards
Exeng
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The Trident 3 struck me as being a classic example of bodging things. When they needed more power for it and failing suitable engines they stuck a vertical lift engine (mounted on its side) into the tail above the centre engine for assisting take off. Many times in a tower somewhere I offered immediate take off only to be told that they needed to light up number 4.
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As has been said the Trident was a good aircraft screwd up by BEA. In those days BEA and BOAC WERE the UK aircraft design authority.
Everything was related to their airport/ field/ passenger requirements and they were great on standardisation. In fact everything was supposed to be the same.
A very good example of this is when they later took BAC 1-11 ( fortunately designed without their help) they wanted the APU changed from Garrett, (average 3,500 hrs between all removals at that time) to Turbomeca(less than 1,000 hr BTR) because thats what they had on Trident !
The Vanguard and Ambassador are a couple of other names to conjure with.
The Trident nose gear retracted sidways so it was off center. We used to tell our 727 friends that the reason for this was the Autopilot was so accurate it was to prevent passenger discomfort from the nosewheel running over all the centerline lights !
Everything was related to their airport/ field/ passenger requirements and they were great on standardisation. In fact everything was supposed to be the same.
A very good example of this is when they later took BAC 1-11 ( fortunately designed without their help) they wanted the APU changed from Garrett, (average 3,500 hrs between all removals at that time) to Turbomeca(less than 1,000 hr BTR) because thats what they had on Trident !
The Vanguard and Ambassador are a couple of other names to conjure with.
The Trident nose gear retracted sidways so it was off center. We used to tell our 727 friends that the reason for this was the Autopilot was so accurate it was to prevent passenger discomfort from the nosewheel running over all the centerline lights !
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Flew the Trident ( all models for about 18 years 10000 hours) A great pilots a/c only trouble with the Trident1c was it started of very under powered with Spey 505-510 of about 9850 lbs thrust eventually upgraded to 505-5f about 12000 lbs thrust It came down very well with reverse on the out board engines full speed brake and speed at MMO/VMO which initially was .88/385 15000fpm down could be achieved. Max range for a T1 was LHR-FCO and for a T2 TLV-LHR T3 was LHR-ATH. Great fun to fly but the bean counters hated it.
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It seems the achilles heel of the Trident was the underpowered engines coupled with the smaller capacity vis a vis the 727. Was there any thought to slapping on some JT8D's ? I seem to remember that Douglas tried to co-sell the Caravelle, before they built the DC-9 and it had the Pratts. While completely understandable that DH would chose a RR engine, was any consideration given to different engines? The auto-pilot sounds great, I fly a 727-100 and it has the original auto-pilot in it, its more work to watch the auto-pilot, making sure it doesn't screw up, than if I hand fly it myself!!!
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May I please ask that those of you who were associated with the Trident spare a moment to take a look at my posting TRIDENT FLIGHT MANUALS in the QUESTIONS forum, asking for any old Trident manuals that you may care to donate?
wrecker
Come on now, up in the loft with you, and let's see what you've got that's dark green and dusty!
PS. For full marks, you have to have flown the HS121-1E with a real Flight Engineer!
Thanks in advance,
Trident Sim
wrecker
Come on now, up in the loft with you, and let's see what you've got that's dark green and dusty!
PS. For full marks, you have to have flown the HS121-1E with a real Flight Engineer!
Thanks in advance,
Trident Sim
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Exeng.... In Answer to your question could be!
Yes I did fly the DH 121-1E with a proper FE
the letters BKS come to mind.
Also did some deliveries to China, Pakistan and Kuwait for HS on a cash basis.
Trident Sim will have a look through the loft for any old manuals
Yes I did fly the DH 121-1E with a proper FE
the letters BKS come to mind.
Also did some deliveries to China, Pakistan and Kuwait for HS on a cash basis.
Trident Sim will have a look through the loft for any old manuals
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I believe that another problem with the Trident was its very poor field performance - hence its nickname "Gripper".
From what I understand this is due to a combonation of underpower engines and its high crz speed aerofoil.
Also, is it true that the six abreast seating in the Trident featured seat 'b' and 'e' facing aft???
From what I understand this is due to a combonation of underpower engines and its high crz speed aerofoil.
Also, is it true that the six abreast seating in the Trident featured seat 'b' and 'e' facing aft???
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Idlewild,
My recollection was that the Trident originally had rows 1 and 3 facing backwards, with a fixed table in between, rather like a train. Since the climb angle was so gentle it wasn't too uncomfortable facing backwards, unlike a 757 out of Orange County I experienced a few years' back, but that's another story.
A further interesting feature of the Trident was that for a (short) while BEA operated it in seven abreast configuration (3+4). The marketing literature at the time proclaimed that the row of four was "particularly popular with families", whilst failing to point out that this popularity was limited to families of extreme ectomorphs that could fit into a seat little more than a foot wide.....
On the other hand, the early Smiths Autoland and the 600mph cruise were pretty awesome!
My recollection was that the Trident originally had rows 1 and 3 facing backwards, with a fixed table in between, rather like a train. Since the climb angle was so gentle it wasn't too uncomfortable facing backwards, unlike a 757 out of Orange County I experienced a few years' back, but that's another story.
A further interesting feature of the Trident was that for a (short) while BEA operated it in seven abreast configuration (3+4). The marketing literature at the time proclaimed that the row of four was "particularly popular with families", whilst failing to point out that this popularity was limited to families of extreme ectomorphs that could fit into a seat little more than a foot wide.....
On the other hand, the early Smiths Autoland and the 600mph cruise were pretty awesome!
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Are their any Tridents around these days, I look at the fire aircaft based at Glasgow and I think it is such a shame the state it is in now and if I had the money I would love to restore and fly it but as it's last flight was in February 6 1982 as Shuttle 6E I think that it is probably a bit too lat
Cunning Artificer
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That "Trident" autoland system started life in the Shorts Belfast CMk.1. Some of the Belfasts are still flying. (Lord knows how?) Do they still have the autoland?
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Through difficulties to the cinema
