ETOPS -- When exactly?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Miami
ETOPS -- When exactly?
Hi,
I would like to know when an aircraft needs to be certified for ETOPS Operations and what are the requirements.
I know that if you fly though the Atlantic/Pacific Ocean your aircraft would have to be certified for sure. (Up to 2 engines). But on a flight thru the Caribean Ocean, let's assume Miami (KMIA) to Aruba (TNCA). Does the airplane, let's say 737-NG, needs to be ETOPS certified?
Thank you,
Bruno Francescoli.
I would like to know when an aircraft needs to be certified for ETOPS Operations and what are the requirements.
I know that if you fly though the Atlantic/Pacific Ocean your aircraft would have to be certified for sure. (Up to 2 engines). But on a flight thru the Caribean Ocean, let's assume Miami (KMIA) to Aruba (TNCA). Does the airplane, let's say 737-NG, needs to be ETOPS certified?
Thank you,
Bruno Francescoli.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 831
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From: The Roman Empire
Correct me if I'm wrong, widebodiers, the ETOPS principle is very simple: you must be ETOPS if your route brings you farther than one hour flt time single engine from a suitable airport.
On a 737 that means roughly 330 NM.
On a 737 that means roughly 330 NM.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
The answer is easily found on the net.
Start with this link :
http://www.ifalda.org/IFALDA%20Web%2...%20%202002.ppt
We apply a distance of 432 miles ( CAA approved)
for the B777.
gb
Start with this link :
http://www.ifalda.org/IFALDA%20Web%2...%20%202002.ppt
We apply a distance of 432 miles ( CAA approved)
for the B777.
gb
The Reverend
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,020
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From: Sydney,NSW,Australia
All Airbus wide bodies are certified for 180 min ETOPS and the A320 narrow body, 120 min. The highest rating of 207 mins at present, has been granted to the All Nippon Airways 777-200ER fleet, with PW4000 engines.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 156
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From: Madrid
Adequate/suitable alternate
Regarding this subject, I would like to solve one little question:
ETOPS definition call for an ETOPS SEGMENT when we are more than 60 m from any adequate aerodrome. EASY.
A s far as we fly within this threshold distance we are not flying ETOPS ¿RIGHT?
If an adequate aerodrome doesnot have anything to do with weather conditions at the airport, ¿ Could we fly within 60minutes from airports closed cause of weather and still not being consider as ETOPS?
JAR OPS 1.245 state thet " Any operations planned to fly a twin engined public transport aeroplane beyond threshold distance from an adequate aerodrome will be considered to be ETOPS"
When dispatching an ETOPS flight route should be within distance to suitable airports, not enough adequate ones. ¿WHY?
I think definition does not match real operations, because when dispatching we are looking for suitable airports and not adequates. When airbone we should remain in distance to open weather alternates, adequates are not enough.
This mess could be solved if adequates satisfies just landing weather minima and suitables planning minima.
Anyone out there can explain this, I´m sure I am missing some point. SORRY FOR THE POST LENGHT.
ETOPS definition call for an ETOPS SEGMENT when we are more than 60 m from any adequate aerodrome. EASY.
A s far as we fly within this threshold distance we are not flying ETOPS ¿RIGHT?
If an adequate aerodrome doesnot have anything to do with weather conditions at the airport, ¿ Could we fly within 60minutes from airports closed cause of weather and still not being consider as ETOPS?
JAR OPS 1.245 state thet " Any operations planned to fly a twin engined public transport aeroplane beyond threshold distance from an adequate aerodrome will be considered to be ETOPS"
When dispatching an ETOPS flight route should be within distance to suitable airports, not enough adequate ones. ¿WHY?
I think definition does not match real operations, because when dispatching we are looking for suitable airports and not adequates. When airbone we should remain in distance to open weather alternates, adequates are not enough.
This mess could be solved if adequates satisfies just landing weather minima and suitables planning minima.
Anyone out there can explain this, I´m sure I am missing some point. SORRY FOR THE POST LENGHT.
Aviator
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 483
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From: Norveg
JAR-OPS 1.245
Maximum distance from an
adequate aerodrome for
two-engined aeroplanes
without an ETOPS
Approval
(a) Unless specifically approved by the
Authority in accordance with JAR-OPS 1.246(a)
(ETOPS Approval), an operator shall not operate a
two-engined aeroplane over a route which contains a
point further from an adequate aerodrome than, in
the case of:
(1) Performance Class A aeroplanes with
either:
(i) A maximum approved
passenger seating configuration of 20 or
more; or
(ii) A maximum take-off mass of
45 360kg or more, the distance flown in 60
minutes at the one-engine-inoperative
cruise speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) below;
(2) [Performance Class A aeroplanes
with:
(i) A maximum approved
passenger seating configuration of 19 or
less; and
(ii) A maximum take-off mass less
than 45 360 kg,
the distance flown in 120 minutes or, if
approved by the Authority, up to 180
minutes for turbo-jet aeroplanes, at the oneengine-
inoperative cruise speed determined
in accordance with subparagraph (b) below
(See AMC OPS 1.245(a)(2));]
(3) Performance Class B or C aeroplanes:
(i) The distance flown in 120
minutes at the one-engine-inoperative
cruise speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) below; or
(ii) 300 nautical miles, whichever is
less. (See IEM OPS 1.245(a).)
(b) An operator shall determine a speed for the
calculation of the maximum distance to an adequate
aerodrome for each two-engined aeroplane type or
variant operated, not exceeding VMO, based upon the
true airspeed that the aeroplane can maintain with
one-engine-inoperative under the following
conditions:
(1) International Standard Atmosphere
(ISA);
(2) Level flight:
(i) For turbojet aeroplanes at:
(A) FL 170; or
(B) At the maximum flight
level to which the aeroplane, with one
engine inoperative, can climb, and
maintain, using the gross rate of
climb specified in the AFM,
whichever is less.
(ii) For propeller driven aeroplanes
at:
(A) FL 80; or
(B) At the maximum flight
level to which the aeroplane, with one
engine inoperative, can climb, and
maintain, using the gross rate of
climb specified in the AFM,
whichever is less.
(3) Maximum continuous thrust or power
on the remaining operating engine;
(4) An aeroplane mass not less than that
resulting from:
(i) Take-off at sea-level at
maximum take-off mass; and
(ii) All engines climb to the
optimum long range cruise altitude; and
(iii) All engines cruise at the long
range cruise speed at this altitude, until the
time elapsed since take-off is equal to the
applicable threshold prescribed in
subparagraph (a) above.
(c) An operator must ensure that the following
data, specific to each type or variant, is included in
the Operations Manual:
(1) The one-engine-inoperative cruise
speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) above; and
(2) The maximum distance from an
adequate aerodrome determined in accordance
with subparagraphs (a) and (b) above.
Note: The speeds and altitudes (flight levels) specified above
are only intended to be used for establishing the maximum
distance from an adequate aerodrome.
[Ch. 1, 01.03.98; Amdt. 3, 01.12.01]
JAR-OPS 1.246 Extended range operations
with two-engined
aeroplanes (ETOPS)
(a) An operator shall not conduct operations
beyond the threshold distance determined in
accordance with JAR-OPS 1.245 unless approved to
do so by the Authority (ETOPS approval) (See GAI-
20, ACJ 20X6.)
(b) Prior to conducting an ETOPS flight, an
operator shall ensure that a suitable ETOPS en-route
alternate is available, within either the approved
diversion time or a diversion time based on the MEL
generated serviceability status of the aeroplane,
whichever is shorter. (See also JAR-OPS 1.297(d).)
[Ch. 1, 01.03.98]
Maximum distance from an
adequate aerodrome for
two-engined aeroplanes
without an ETOPS
Approval
(a) Unless specifically approved by the
Authority in accordance with JAR-OPS 1.246(a)
(ETOPS Approval), an operator shall not operate a
two-engined aeroplane over a route which contains a
point further from an adequate aerodrome than, in
the case of:
(1) Performance Class A aeroplanes with
either:
(i) A maximum approved
passenger seating configuration of 20 or
more; or
(ii) A maximum take-off mass of
45 360kg or more, the distance flown in 60
minutes at the one-engine-inoperative
cruise speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) below;
(2) [Performance Class A aeroplanes
with:
(i) A maximum approved
passenger seating configuration of 19 or
less; and
(ii) A maximum take-off mass less
than 45 360 kg,
the distance flown in 120 minutes or, if
approved by the Authority, up to 180
minutes for turbo-jet aeroplanes, at the oneengine-
inoperative cruise speed determined
in accordance with subparagraph (b) below
(See AMC OPS 1.245(a)(2));]
(3) Performance Class B or C aeroplanes:
(i) The distance flown in 120
minutes at the one-engine-inoperative
cruise speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) below; or
(ii) 300 nautical miles, whichever is
less. (See IEM OPS 1.245(a).)
(b) An operator shall determine a speed for the
calculation of the maximum distance to an adequate
aerodrome for each two-engined aeroplane type or
variant operated, not exceeding VMO, based upon the
true airspeed that the aeroplane can maintain with
one-engine-inoperative under the following
conditions:
(1) International Standard Atmosphere
(ISA);
(2) Level flight:
(i) For turbojet aeroplanes at:
(A) FL 170; or
(B) At the maximum flight
level to which the aeroplane, with one
engine inoperative, can climb, and
maintain, using the gross rate of
climb specified in the AFM,
whichever is less.
(ii) For propeller driven aeroplanes
at:
(A) FL 80; or
(B) At the maximum flight
level to which the aeroplane, with one
engine inoperative, can climb, and
maintain, using the gross rate of
climb specified in the AFM,
whichever is less.
(3) Maximum continuous thrust or power
on the remaining operating engine;
(4) An aeroplane mass not less than that
resulting from:
(i) Take-off at sea-level at
maximum take-off mass; and
(ii) All engines climb to the
optimum long range cruise altitude; and
(iii) All engines cruise at the long
range cruise speed at this altitude, until the
time elapsed since take-off is equal to the
applicable threshold prescribed in
subparagraph (a) above.
(c) An operator must ensure that the following
data, specific to each type or variant, is included in
the Operations Manual:
(1) The one-engine-inoperative cruise
speed determined in accordance with
subparagraph (b) above; and
(2) The maximum distance from an
adequate aerodrome determined in accordance
with subparagraphs (a) and (b) above.
Note: The speeds and altitudes (flight levels) specified above
are only intended to be used for establishing the maximum
distance from an adequate aerodrome.
[Ch. 1, 01.03.98; Amdt. 3, 01.12.01]
JAR-OPS 1.246 Extended range operations
with two-engined
aeroplanes (ETOPS)
(a) An operator shall not conduct operations
beyond the threshold distance determined in
accordance with JAR-OPS 1.245 unless approved to
do so by the Authority (ETOPS approval) (See GAI-
20, ACJ 20X6.)
(b) Prior to conducting an ETOPS flight, an
operator shall ensure that a suitable ETOPS en-route
alternate is available, within either the approved
diversion time or a diversion time based on the MEL
generated serviceability status of the aeroplane,
whichever is shorter. (See also JAR-OPS 1.297(d).)
[Ch. 1, 01.03.98]
