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Old 19th Jun 2001, 01:54
  #21 (permalink)  
JUMBO400
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I flew the 747-400 for BA for almost ten years before getting my command on the Classic. Never flown the classic previously. found no real problem apart from the lack of a real autothrottle and a bunch of bananas on the approach!
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 12:19
  #22 (permalink)  
763 4 me
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WOK may I ask what the one exception is then ? Overall, including the previous post, things sound positive indeed !

What is this "bananas" on approach ?
 
Old 19th Jun 2001, 16:20
  #23 (permalink)  
WOK
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7634me - the exception was Concorde, hardly a fair contest

Bananas refers to the thrust lever stagger which can be quite pronounced, esp on BAs old JT9D powered -136s. Hope your hands aren't too petite.

Enjoy.
 
Old 24th Jun 2001, 06:17
  #24 (permalink)  
exraaf
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This is an article I found on this subject. As you can see the KLM upgrade is already completed. Lufthansa and JAL are also considering doing the same. JAL will keep classics flying untill 2015.

KLM AND CANADIAN MARCONI'S CLASSIC COCKPIT UPGRADE - A Big Step Forward in Navigation for the 747-Classic

MONTREAL, July 5 /CNW/ - KLM Engineering & Maintenance and Canadian
Marconi Company's joint comprehensive B747 cockpit upgrade has been granted a
Supplemental Type Certification (STC) by the FAA, following recent successful
flight tests. This upgrade will extend the life of KLM's 13 aircraft
B747-200/300 fleet well beyond the year 2010. KLM introduced the first
modified aircraft (one of two freighter aircraft conversions) into revenue
service on May 19, 1999. The first passenger flight with an upgraded aircraft
followed soon after on May 22, 1999. Interviewed during and after the first
flight, KLM Captain and senior engineering pilot, Robert Stade, reported, "no
problems with the system, it operated exactly as expected and is a big step
forward in navigation for the 747-Classic.''
KLM's entire 13 aircraft B747 fleet was modified as of June 25, 1999.
This two-year upgrade program, described by a FAA official as "the most
comprehensive avionics STC activity we have seen,'' was executed by a team
made up of Canadian Marconi (the systems integrator), KLM Engineering &
Maintenance, Smiths Industries and Hollingsead International. Hans Denslagen
of KLM operations engineering group, observed. "We have achieved the
capabilities we worked for, and we are looking forward to enjoying the
benefits of the modernization during this summer season.''
The cockpit avionics upgrade is built around the installation of triple
Canadian Marconi CMA-900 Flight Management Systems (FMS), which incorporate
the Company's industry-leading 12-channel Global Positioning System (GPS)
sensors. The three CMA-900s are fully integrated with the new inertial
reference systems and provide interfaces to the autopilot/flight director,
PMS, ACARS, SATCOM and ACMS. All of the control and display functions for
these systems are incorporated in the Multifunction Control Display Unit
(MCDU) of the FMS, allowing the old technology DCUs to be removed from the
cockpit. Also, LCD digital flight and engine instruments will replace the
analog instruments in a second phase of the program.
The FMS equipment provides for tomorrows air traffic environment
including FANS and CNS/ATM requirements. The upgraded aircraft will have
capabilities, including GPS navigation and data link communications, which are
more advanced than all but the most recently delivered aircraft types such as
the B747-400, B777 and A-330/340.
Rob Lebel, Canadian Marconi Program Manager, reports that a number of
other airlines have already requested quotes for similar upgrades. "Canadian
Marconi and KLM Engineering & Maintenance have shown that this is the most
cost-effective upgrade path for the over 550 747-Classic aircraft still flying
in revenue service.'' This STC sets a baseline for the program, which KLM
Engineering & Maintenance and Canadian Marconi are now marketing in a joint
effort. As well, the total solution can be tailored to meet the specific needs
of other classic widebodies like the DC-10, L-1011 and A-300.''


 
Old 24th Jun 2001, 20:58
  #25 (permalink)  
763 4 me
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What an excellent post EXRAAF, much appreciated. So one would have to conclude that there is plenty of life left in the old 747's yet.

Any more insights ?
 
Old 25th Jun 2001, 07:01
  #26 (permalink)  
john_tullamarine
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On the question of transitioning from one technology to another, I love an old tale of a very experienced but long since retired friend.

His interesting experience came in transitioning, at a ripe age but with lots of fascinating Types behind him, onto his first transport jet.

After a number of sweaty sim rides and post-sim long faces, he bounced out of the sim after one session with a grin from ear to ear ... "mate, he failed all the electrics ... it was just like flying a real aeroplane ..".

Thereafter, the conversion presented no fears.

 
Old 25th Jun 2001, 07:44
  #27 (permalink)  
puff
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Found a photo guys of the classic with FMCs..

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=36123

 
Old 25th Jun 2001, 20:57
  #28 (permalink)  
763 4 me
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Excellent photos PUFF.

So BA and KLM have both tinkered with the navigation kits of their Classic fleet. Who else has done similar, have any of the latest 742SF/743SF freighter conversions included an avionics upgrade ?
 
Old 25th Jun 2001, 22:43
  #29 (permalink)  
mutt
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The PR blurb that i printed above also said that Saudi Arabian Airlines was installing the kit in their B747-100/200/300/SP aircraft.

Mutt.
 
Old 2nd Jul 2001, 15:31
  #30 (permalink)  
763 4 me
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An interesting article on page 10 of this weeks Flight International. "CMC secures 747 cockpit customers".

It appears Saudi, Corsair and Dragonair are quoted as customers for the Boeing 747 Classic cockpit upgrade it pioneered with KLM.

The upgrade (mentioned in earlier posts) extends the life of the Classics through the addition of communications, navigation and CNS/ATM. All the aircraft will use CMC's CMA-900 FMS, which features a colour liquid crystal multifunction display and a 12-channel GPS sensor to provide GPS-based navigation and oceanic/remote area operations capability.

All good news it appears for those moving from glass to analogue with reservations.
 

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