Guppy, you'll make a fortune if you write a book all about aviation! You explain it so well! Even I learn!

Rainboe, Guppy,

I will second that comment - it's so refreshing to have a proper expert on the forum and one who doesn't patronise or critcise even the simplest of questions, that book sounds like a great idea!

thanks for all your input:

VnV...

Geez...you guys are making me turn red. Thanks! :uhoh:

And humble too. Bless.

Seriously though SNSGuppy, your explanations are a shining example to others on how you can bring your point across without being rude or snobbish about it.

I love reading your posts. :-)

S.

Finding the gate
 

What's the secret to finding your gate when you land? Do you have special charts that give the exact location of each gate, or does someone discreetly show you the way, or what? I've seen airport diagrams but they just show runways and taxiways and things like that, not individual gates. I don't recall ever seeing a "Follow me" car or anything in front of the aircraft on actual flights I've taken. And it seems unlikely that pilots have memorized the position of every gate at every airport. So how do you find your way without getting lost or having to turn around or anything like that?

Anthony,

When the aircraft is switched to ground frequency the controller will advise them what stand they are parking on and how to get there...ie "Take taxiway alpha, then juliet parking stand 214", as the aircraft gets to the end of the taxiway (or near it) then the gates are clearly signed.

RT Comms: ICAO code instead of Callsign
 

Hi

just wondering under what circumstances would an aircraft identify itself in radio communications using its airline ICAO code instead of it's airline Callsign, e.g. "Yankee Yankee Yankee 123" instead of "WingandaprAir123".

JAS

There is an ICAO list of assigned operator callsigns. If your operator is on it, the callsign is used (not that it is always the case).

Icao doc 8585 http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Doc...-%20Decode.pdf (3,2mb)

FD (the un-real)

Thanks for the reply and link FD, but it doesn't quite answer my question (althogh, strangely enough, the airline in question isn't listed in the document you linked, but I can get it's ICAO info through google).

Assume an airline; "Flaky Air", with ICAO code YYY (yes I know that's reserved) and callsign "WingandaprAir". My (all be it limited) understanding is that on all flights operated by the airline (with the possible execption being wet-leases to another operator) in all radio communications with ATC the aircraft would identify itself as "WingandaprAir <Flight Designator>". So, under what circumstances would they delibertily identify the flight as "YYY <Flight Designator>"?

The only reason I asks is I overheard a flight using its ICAO code rather than callsign in all ATC communications and I'm fairly sure it was intentional, as at one stage the pilot communicating with ATC initially used the airlines callsign, then restarted the messages using the ICAO code. Before anyone gets uppity, it's not a conspiracy, I'm not questioning the abilities or motives of those involved. Its nothing more the idle curiosity (and my choice of hypotetical airline name and callsign is not intended to infer any view on the airline or individuals ivolved, it is intended to be light hearted).

JAS

Believe it or not, airplanes do get lost...turn the wrong way, take the wrong taxiway. One of the worst air disasters in history involved two large airplanes occupying the runway at the same time, when they ought not have.

For finding the gate, we call in advance, and have that information given us over the radio, a satphone or a datalink. Aeronautical charts publish gate positions, including diagrams and coordinates. Part of the airport area arrival is reviewing the area charts, arrival procedures, approaches, and then after landing, how we exit the runway and how we get where we need to go. Navigation on the ground is taken very seriously, because even at less than 20 knots, one can still get into a lot of trouble my making a wrong turn. We brief the taxi route, potential trouble spots with intersecting taxiways and runways, and then both pilots have an airport diagram available, with one looking outside, and one dividing his attention inside and out, and confirming each taxi turn and crossing.

We do get marshalling cars frequently, depending on where we go. They seem more common in Europe than most places. We also have airport signs marking taxiways and runways, and painted markings identifying gates and taxiways.

"Follow Me" cars -
 

You get a "Follow Me" car coming in or going out in Russia...
Same for the CIS nations, and in China.
Not been to India recently, but was a "Follow Me" in Bombay for the cargo ramp.
Nice to have. I got lost a couple of times on unfamiliar airports.
Even once while taxiing a 747, at my "home base". Shame on me.
Of course, you young geeks and nerds never make mistakes.
:(
Happy contrails

Sometimes the ATC is unfamiliar with the callsign and may respond to our call using the letters. Once they do I would stick to it to make thing easier. It is the content of the message which is important, not the label. Otherwise, I have no clue.

I don't know if Volga-Dnepr have a "call-sign", but their flights we get out here always communicate as Victor Delta Alpha nnnn.

FD & PT

Thanks!

JAS

How much spoiler deployment?
 

How do you decide how much spoiler to deploy, and when? Do you adjust the spoiler setting between the stops (between ARM and FLT, for example) or do you always advance it to the flight position if you need it at all? I know that there are guidelines for flap schedules but I haven't seen anything about spoiler schedules, so I assume pilots use them entirely at their discretion (?).

Also, in my sim I use spoilers mainly to slow down or to improve my rate of descent. Are there other clever uses of spoilers that I haven't discovered?

Anthony,

That really depends on the airplane and the application. Spoilers serve a number of functions, including acting as speed brakes, devices to dump lift and put weight on wheels for landing, and serving to aid the ailerons in lateral or roll control in flight.

The way the spoilers are used varies with the airplane. Some airplanes use a set amount in flight, others use variable amounts in a speed brake capacity...some use them for roll control, others don't.

In our airplane, the speed brakes are auto spoilers on takeoff, and they're not armed. If we reject the takeoff, the spoilers will autodeploy when the second and fourth reverse levers are moved past the interlocks and into reverse. On landing, however, we arm the autospoilers and they deploy when the first and third thrust levers reach idle, and the weight is on the wheels enough to untilt them.

In flight, we use spoilers during a descent when necessary. It's generally preferred to not use them unless necessary; they make noise and vibration, and it's better to plan the descent and arrival without them. When given a late descent or a reduction in speed, however, they're a legitimate and useful tool for slowing down or going down, or both.

Some thoughts on why poeple leave thier gear down a little longer...they forgot...they are trying to let the water/snow ect spin off before they put the gear up in the well...cooling..they have a problem with an indicator.....but anyway you cut it...gear up for second segment is the rule...so leaving it down, messes with the numbers....

If one plans for a gear down departure or delay with the gear and uses performance calculation accordingly, how does this "mess with the numbers," oh mighty technical one?

If one meets the climb gradient criteria, is this particularly relevant, and if one exceeds the certification second segment criteria during a diverse criteria departure, is it particularly important?

Oh really?...you got some approved 'gear down second segment climb numbers' ' oh knowlegable one?

Yes, we do. It's all calculated using our Onboard Performance System...and we account for everything, including gear extention.

Of course, if the climb performance is in excess of the climb gradient required, then it's really irrelevant.

Whereas second segment performance begins with gear retraction and extends through typically 400-1,500' (depending on obstacles), if one hasn't retracted the gear and has first segment performance data, then one may use that. If one's performance is far in excess of the required gradient, and if one is using diverse criteria (you do know what that is, right??), then it's largely irrelevant.

You're so technical. "Messing with the numbers." Imagine what you'd say if you really knew what you were talking about!

Onboard Performance System...would that be like in your FMS? and you can just select gear down for second segement to give you a new V2 speed that you load into the tapes, and actualy get a new climb gradiant that you check againt the SID? IF so...thats great, I would like to know which FMS your using..having used Collins, Honeywell, NZ2000s...I would very much like you show me how to pull up that info. Thanks.
Given that I have never heard of second segement numbers being calculated for gear down until clear of obsticles, I would really like to learn more about this.

No, it wouldn't. Not in the FMS, nor "like in the FMS."

Too bad. You probably never will. You don't have this capability on your microsoft flight simulator?

Oh, well...since it's not in the FMS, and not in my Part 25 manual...I am still wondering where those second segment gear down climb gradient numbers are?

Whereas lookforshooter has been banned, look for nonflushinglav now...it's his new name. Same poster, same tired rhetoric.

For the record, there's no Part 25 manual. A transport category airplane is certificated under Part 25...but it's not a part 25 manual, nor does it make implication regarding what other aircraft types, or Part 25 for that matter, utilizes for performance data.

Then again, one can't expect to find all the relevant data when one is attempting to operate a microsoft flight simulator.

What is an Onboard Performance System, and what type of aircraft is it in?

OPS isn't "in" an aircraft. It's a performance calculation system developed by Texetron, adapatable to various aircraft, and using manufacturer data.

With this system in place of spagetti charts, we can calculate our performance rapidly based on a lot of factors. What OPS does is allow us to use one source and combine every chart and piece of data into one calculation to come up with takeoff and landing data, as well as calculate max takeoff weights based on anticipated fuel burn, etc. It allows input of forecasts and reports, as well as inclusion of Configuration Deviation List items not applicable to a MEL...small things which of their own accord may not mean much, but which can add up to aerodynamic and performance penalties.

This includes gear extended, wet runways, close-in obstacles, etc.

What's important to understand is that OPS doesn't introduce something that wasn't there to begin with...in other words, anything we can do with OPS, we could have done with the manual charts, but in a much shorter time period, with a much higher degree of accuracy and repeatability. It even formats and prints out the data cards. It's faster than tabulated charts (tab data), whiz wheels, slide rules, etc. It's particularly helpful when a runway change, or even an ATIS change, alters the data used in the last calculation.

What I've often done in the past when I haven't had a tool like this to use, has been to carry my own book of the relevant performance charts, arranged in the proper order to allow me to rapidly make performance calculations on the fly; I've done this for each airplane I've flown, big and small.

Some airplanes provide less data than others. However, if one knows that one's performance is far in excess of that required, then minor variances in the predicted gradient are insignificant. Part 25 establishes minimum gradients. Terminal procedures establish minimum gradients and climb criteria based on obstacles, noise abatement, and air traffic control requirements. An aircraft which exceeds these minimum values by a significant number does not encroach on or compromise the minimum numbers when encountering a small degredation in climb performance.

Some manufacturers publish data with wheels down, some don't. A first segment climb ends with gear retraction, however, and where first segment data is published it is relevant.

So far as gear down operations go...it may be left down for many reasons, and a number of manufacturers do include gear down data. It may be a separate chart, or it may be a performance note showing the performance penalty to add for gear down. OPS simply makes it easier and faster to calculate.

SNS3Guppy: I really want that book you would write. As my PPrUNe habits change, I realize that I skip threads and only stop at your posts to read. And then find there is nothing to contribute; and learn. :D

Flightdetent, that's very kind of you to say, but it would become a very one-sided (read boring) conversation if just one of us posted all the time, wouldn't it?. What makes a site such as this great is the diversity of experience, background, and opinion.