why are we despised?
 

what is it about aircraft spotting that creates such negative reactions from many people? im sick of being branded a geek ,nerd anorak,loser etc if i mention to people my interests include( but are not limited to aircraft spotting), this sort of reaction even extends to people engaged in aviation i was recently staying at a hotel close to aldergrove when i got chatting to a couple of pilots and an engineer employed by a well known charter /scheduled carrier in the bar, when i mentioned i was a keen spotter i was treated with barely concealed contempt, why? i would have thought people who actually work in aviation would understand the fascination it holds for many "outsiders"

I can sympathise there. After "spotting" for some 40+ years, I still get the "nerd, geek, anorak" comments from most people. I work in the industry and they are the worst people for this. The view seems to be that if you take any interest whatsoever in aviation then you are some sort of idiot.

These same people can quote you chapter and verse many and various facts and figures about aviation, regestrations etc but they are NOT interested! Bull!!!!.

My advice is to ignore the people who try to run down your hobby and just get on with it. Stuff the macho idiots who think anything that doesnt involve getting pissed and shagging is nerdy.

Remember, sticks and stones etc!!!

skiddy

Same experience as previous posters, I work in the industry and to be frank it is rather insular, a cosy little club which is difficult to get into. And not even the sharpest tools in the box either. I never cease to be amazed at the number of pilot CVs I receive when I am not even an aircraft operator!!

LONGBOW1 - You're NOT a geek and there is nothing to be ashamed of for pursuing your hobby. Those who criticise or think badly of us are the real prats, not us.

Don't hide your interest, talk openly about it and you will find a lot of people warm to you and want to talk about it. I know plenty of professional aviation people - some in very senior posts - who collect numbers and thoroughly enjoy their hobby. I stopped writing numbers after a visit to the USA - 10,000 aircraft in a few weeks - but I still enjoy visiting airports and watching aircraft. More power to the "spotters" I say...

I fully agree with Heathrow Director.

Many spotters, or avaition enthusiasts as I prefer to hear them referred to as, have subsequently enter the industry and , due to their genuine interest, put a lot more effort into their duties than others who just want a wage-packet.

No harm is done, which is more than can be said of other so-called pastimes and hobbies.

Longbow:
You just keep on doing what you enjoy.
Shame on anyone in the industry who treats you with disrespect.
I always try to be polite and informative to people who have questions.
For the most part they are really quite interesting and fun to talk too.
Strangely enough, I have found, most have no interest at all at becoming pilots or engineers or working in the industry at all.
I even met a guy who was a bus spotter and could ream off all kinds of specs on every bus used in GB.
Carry on Spotting. ( Soon to be a major Motion Picture starring Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson and an appropriately endowed Bimbo )
Cheers
Albatross

Shouldn't that be Charles Hawtry, Kenneth Williams, Sid James, Barabara Windsor and Hatti Jacques...? :ok:

I was once branded as "sad" in a pub by a young colleague because I was carrying a copy of Pilot - he was carrying a copy of FHM...

If you enjoy it, do it.

Longbow- a lot of people in the industry are there because they love aeroplanes. Pilots especially. I think you will find they were once spotters to a degree themselves- I certainly was whenever I had the chance. Not reggie spotting myself, but just hearing the whine and smelling the jet fuel smells and exhausts at airports. I went on to fly professionally for 34 years (and maybe more to come). Having been one myself, I was always friendly to them, and have chatted with them many times over the years. When my flying days are over, I will be back occasionally on the 'other' side of the fence to see things like A380 and other new ones. I always had a wave for the people at the fence of that pub at MAN.

Don't be disheartened, don't be embarrassed. We share a common interest and love. Unfortunately there are a lot of people in the industry who find the public a nuisance. There are zealous security people who find the public a nuisance. They are 'splinters on the bannister of life'. Enjoy your hobby with no apologies to anyone! It's a bloody sight more fun than stamp collecting, beer mat collecting, watching trashy videos, football, cricket, going to the gym, horse racing, decorating................

Skiddy -

we get it the worst as we're on the good ol' Isle of Man!
Oh the flak i have had in the past !!! :D

But we still carry on spotting, for many of us, the starter of a long career in aviation......!

RR

Ive been a spotter for as long as I can remember.......:D

I like nothing better than rummaging in the long grass at ABZ with me zoom lens...

:ok:

In my experience you will find the majority of pilots are 'closet' spotters...

Most think that because it's their profession they cannot be referred to as anoraks.

Wrong...

I have witnessed some very mature & experienced female/male aviators almost wet themselves with excitement when something unusual or exotic appears in the cockpit window.:8

As for me?

My only interest is keeping an eye out for any conflicting traffic...;)

Well spotting at (then) ringway cost me my o levels but i still made it to 13000 hrs and the left seat of a jet. No thanks to the uk system and boys club mentioned earlier. !!!! em . I still go and watch aircraft and wonder at how fortunate i am to do what i do.

Not a spotter my self but have a huge interest in the field that pays my mortgage...aerospace.

It is sad (in my experience) to see how workers in this industry are getting less and less interested in the business. In the engine companies that I have worked for, the new college grads have no idea or desire about the product, only their piece of FEM or CFD software. It is like they are missing a large part of the "ground work" needed for a fulfilling career i.e. an interest!!

Keep on spotting and keep on being interested. The feeling is even better when the hardware you see taking off or landing came from your own imagination and experience...more power to you!!

PS Does Ian Allen still do those books listing tail numbers?? I was a spotty (kid) spotter for a few years :ok:

It is refreshing to hear so many people in the industry, some obviously of quite mature years, speak so enthusiastically about aviation and so warmly towards 'spotters' in this thread.

I am fairly mature myself, having been born towards the end of WWII, and have always had a general interest in aviation, though never been in the business. It is only in comparatively recent years, since my early retirement, that I have been able to indulge this interest more fully.

I am not a spotter in the sense that I collect a/c numbers. I just enjoy seeing aircraft fly, especially taking off and landing, and I am more interested in the capability of a type than with its number. I also enjoy the atmosphere of airports, large or small.

Although I don't collect numbers I do tend to remember aircraft that are named. Back in the 1980s, for example, Britannia called many of their B 737-200s after famous Britons, or at least famous people who had a connection with Britain and usually, though not always, with aviation - Jean Batten I believe was a New Zealander.

I also remember flying on Britannia's Sir Arthur Whitten Brown, The Hon CS Rolls, Ernest Shackleton, Florence Nightingale (and on a KLM MD 11 of the same name), Sir John Alcock, Sir Frederick Handley Page, Viscount Trenchard, Amy Johnson, Lord Brabazon of Tara, George Stephenson and Sir Thomas Sopwith. However, the most unusual name on a Britannia 732 that I travelled on was something like The O'Neil Hereditary Ruler of Ulster.

I think 'despised' is too strong a word. I for one, am not a spotter, although I enjoy watching aircraft - otherwise i wouldn't have started flying them. But I must say that I am a little 'perplexed' by the whole spotting hobby, registrations and all. I think it is a peculiarly British thing.

To give an example, recently I was early for work and couldn't be bothered going straight to the crew-room, so I drove up to the local spotter zone. Like everyone else, I hopped out of the car to watch an oncoming jet fly directly overhead in gusty and demanding conditions. There were a couple of spotters nearby. I was surprised to see them jump back in their cars and start scribbling down the registration (I assume) as soon as the a/c went overhead. I for one, was interested in the crosswind landing, but these guys didn't even look up at the critical moment. So I must assume that, in their case at least, collecting the registration was more interesting than the aircraft, the mechanics of flight or the skill or otherwise of the pilot. Strange.

Having said that, I recently flew with a new First Officer and was amazed by his lack of knowledge of aircraft types. Within the space of 10 minutes he asked me what type a jetstream 41 in front of us was (not necessarily a sin) and then asked me whether a 737-300 was a 757! I am increasingly worried that Daddys are putting their sons and daughters through the likes of Oxford simply to get them into a career. What happened to the kids who loved to watch aircraft, became addicted to the smell of kero, scrimped and saved their way into a cockpit and finally landed a flying job. The real enthusiasts. Don't seem to see many of them around the place these days, at least not airside of the fence!

LOST

Also don't forget that without the Spotters support the admission fee to the PFA Rally / Flying For Fun would be even more expensive. Carry on spotting people!

I see nothing wrong in aircraft spotting as a hobby.

My own interest in aviation started as a progression from bus spotting and then train spotting. In the 1950's spotting of all varieties was common amongst youths particularly as there were a limited number of other interest available, television being for the privileged few and computer games still unheard of.

A group of us used to cycle all over the home counties from South Essex and regularly visited Stapleford, Southend, Stansted, Heathrow and I remember one epic journey that took in Stansted, Hatfield, Panshanger, Radlett and Luton all in one day by bike. The Roof Gardens at Heathrow were packed every weekend and there was always a rush to be amongst the first in to get the best viewing positions.

I still have my 1956 Ian Allen Civil Aircraft Registrations book, well thumbed and underlined and still buy each edition as it is published.

My interest in collection registrations ended when I discovered another hobby - girls! Even in the early Sixties it was not cool to be known as a spotter.

These days, however, I collect photographs and books and harbour a secret ambition to write a detailed history of Southend Airport, although I doubt that will actually happen.

Back to spotters, generally they accumulate a tremendous knowledge of their subject, which tends to be aired only amongst like types and if there was a way to channel this for the public perhaps the ridicule might cease. After all anyone with a thorough knowledge of, say Shakespeare, would'nt be considered an "anorak", but would probably appear on Mastermind as a genius.

The sad thing is that all the knowledge I have accumulated will be lost when I pass on as my children have their own lives and will consign all my "junk", as they call it, to the bin.

Still, there is hope as my two year old grandson can already recognise a contrail at 30,000 feet!

Cheers in nostalgia

Southender

Perhaps jealousyWe can enjoy it more than they do and turn off when we want and don't have to get up at 4am in the winter :E

I've never really been into the registration malarky, much more just admiring 180,000kg of aircraft rolling down a runway to 170mph and deciding to get airborne and the sound of 60,000lbst being produced.

HD is certainly one of the friendlier (ex)professionals:ok: I'm glad to say I have met some mature and not so mature professionals who aren't the type who degrade spotters at every opportunity.

Don't worry about it mate. Every kind of spotter usually experiences the same thing. Ignorance is usually the reason, people who haven't got the ability to develop an interest in anything are generally leading dull lives and resent other peoples interests.
Whilst I don't spot on a regular basis, a day out at Manchester with my grandson is a delight to us both. When I was a frequent business flyer I would always book an airport hotel with a view of the runway, if i had to stay at the airport. I would arrive early for my flight so i could watch aircraft, long connection times when changing planes was never a bother to me..
Their is so much to see and do at an airport...

So there we have it- I think Longbow is looking at the situation rather too negatively or sensitively! Perhaps mild criticism is being taken too hard- remember stamp collectors, butterfly collectors, beer mat collectors, football card collectors....they all come in for a bit of ribbing too!

I have one idea to postulate for comment. This is quite interesting. I watched a documentary recently about autism which suggested ALL males were, by what we define as autistic, autistic to a mild degree. We are familiar, thanks to Rainman, with the qualities of autism, and I'm inclined to agree it is something all us fellahs may actually suffer from. Look at the above hobbies.....virtually all male passtimes completely, and the mere fact of logging reggies/train numbers/Norbert Dentressangles/Eddie Stobart lorry names for no other reason than to keep a list probably shows a mild form of what we are talking about!

So am I spouting rubbish?

PS Women don't get away Scot-free. They've got hormones instead! Which is worse?

Hi G-LOST!

Remember me - your ex-PPL student from LBA?

I take it you're a captain nowadays! Well done! Is it still on the E135/45? Have you even set foot inside a C152 since moving to the 'big stuff?'

Is SH a captain yet?

Regards

Flock1

PS. To the starter of this thread, sorry about sending this off on a tangent. I'm sure it'll return back on track soon enough.

As a young Kid I spent many a happy weekend at the top of the multi storey car park at Gatwick with my airband radio (still remember the model... SHARP FX213AU :) ).. people often came up to me to ask what was the next plane coming down the ILS was (I assume they were waiting for family/friends!)

I never felt I were sad... however I have to admit I didn't really pursue the hobby much after Eighteen (University got in the way).

I fly now professionally, however those were great days, and a "spotting" holiday wouldn't be amiss if I had the time!

I for one, like many people I work with were or are spotters. Actually spotters brings kind of negative connotations - I prefer enthusiast.

I mean people watch F1... are they sad?

So we're really talking about two things here

(1) Writing down and collecting registration numbers, which I have to admit is a little ...ahem... esoteric

(2) Watching aeroplanes, small and large, learning and collecting information about different types, usage, deployment, development, interesting technical details etc etc.


I worked in the industry for a while and I saw mostly people who didn't really give a crap about aircraft (I was in IT) there were a few that were very engaged in the subject and a broad mifddle ground of people who knew alot, but because it was their job. THey would know all the spark plug types if they worked in an auto parts store.

Having said that, I think the world would be, at the very least a more logical place if industries everywhere were filled with enthusiasts. Then again I really have little love for computers.

I do like the autism + lists vs hormones comment though :E

Some interesting views here. Depends how you define a "spotter" I suppose. The predilection for collecting s/no or regs is one that I find hard to understand in mature adults---in my younger days, yep, as it was fostering my interest in aviation. I suppose I had better add here that I still invariably glance up at an aircraft when I see one however--- have done for years and will continue to do so I am pleased to say.

The term "aviation enthusiast" is much more valid however given that a significant number of these people have a detailed knowledge about many sectors of aviation and are usually an invaluable source--and not just in a historical context.

Interesting point from G-LOST as well re his F/O---I don't think he's as unique as you might think. I often encounter (ed) many pilots and engineers for whom aviation was simply "a job"--and that was it. Now as I have always been interested in anything aviation related and not just the airlines, I found this a little difficult to understand at times--given that it's not the sort of industry that you simply just drop into by chance as it were--although possibly to-day that's probably no longer true.

Not to mention the fact that serious enthusiasts are also pretty good as a "volunteer security" around airports / fields given they would be the first to notice something out of the ordinary would they not.

The only criticism I would level against some of them is when they grab their "20 secs of fame" whenever an incident occurs and some equally vacuous journo wants a sound bite from an eye-witness. Unlike the more measured response to serious questions from those involved in the industry posed by serious journos that is.

Dont let them get you down, I have 2 children and on a regular bais would tell them we are going to london to Heathrow to watch the planes when they were younger it was ok, but later they got wise mum was a plane spotter and thought I was mad, anyway the way to cure this was to become cabin crew at 39 and that did it for and now im doing my ppl with lots of encouragement from out Flight Deck and the company, and I spend as much time in the cockpit as poss, and love it it has not cured me just made me believe in myself that I can do it, and yes on the way to work still plane spot and can tell you all the registrations etc etc. I LOVE PLANE SPOTTING. So enjoy and take no notice of the narrow minded people who fly the skys, and believe me security only wished they could.

I think the one point I would raise is that people who "despise" spotters may have nothing to be passionately interested in, themselves. That's the sad part; if people criticise you for being an anorak, airplane geek etc, ponder (or even ask) what they are passionate about. Life is too long a journey to go through it without being passionate about something.

The Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times" is one thing, but a much worse curse would be to go through life without having any real joy, anything to make your heart beat a little faster, to throw yourself into. That's what aviation is to me; it's more than just photography; it's an incredibly wide area that can actually take in many other areas.

So, when I'm standing in a field beneath the 09L approach tomorrow, people may see a geek, but it'll be someone who is just exercising one particular part of his hobby. And someone who'd be an awful lot happier if the 27s were in use. Well, you can't have everything!

Anyone who wishes to call 6ft and 20 stone of Caslance a geek is quite welcome to try.

But you'd better have an encyclopeadic knowledge of British aircraft of the 1950s............................ ;)

were still here, well i know i am, im doing my ppl(h) and hopefully my cpl(h), if I wasnt raised at an airport fence (well not completley but you know what I mean) then I probably wouldnt be insane enough to spend €80,000+ on a career.

sadly though, I do know one or two guys who want to fly heavies purely for money.

Once in ever so seldom I go to a picnic spot off the end of the runway at K---. What impresses me is the number of 20-something females who show up with their small children to watch the planes.

They probably aren't just waiting for the phone call to pick up daddy at the airport since the access road is one-way away from the airport. It would take negotiating a a maze of raods to get back.

Spotters, nerds, geeks, anoraks? Not really, but they must have some aviation interest.

I would be lying through my teeth to say I haven't stood next to "one of the despised" ( ;) ) on top of the Queens Building at Heathrow listening to their scanner. And the knowledge base/aircraft recognition of some of the guys and gals I have spoken to is amazing as is the level of enthusiasm shown. I have certainly learnt a thing or two from them, or had an aircraft call in that is a little out of the ordinary and thought "Hey, I remember old mate telling me something about that!"

You guys and gals keep doing what you do, and ignore anyone who wants to tell you otherwise. :ok: Chances are if I'm around, I'll be looking up as well.

Ever been to Carmen, Manitoba and if so what is it like?

Funny that the TV shows about airports never seemed to do a bit about spotters? Too busy chasing the airside ambulances?

Flock1

Gidday mate. Email me, same old address.

LOST

I still have my Ian Allans's 1961 edition of "Civil Aircraft Markings" with all the "copped" registrations underlined.

It did me no harm and eventually led to 35 years flying the things out of Heathrow. Anyone interested in a few old log books? Tridents, 757's. 767's and 777's.

slightly off track but on South Today last night was a piece on roundabout spotters who were visiting Basingstoke to research info for a possible book.

Interesting thread - I don't think I've ever been "despised" for being a spotter. I've been the source of amusement many times, the object of interest frequently, and questioned by the police once (EWR, watching the CO E145s while waiting for a flight to BHX).

I've been all over the world - Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Hong Kong, Singapore, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver and more US cities than I care to remember and I've always done the tourist things as well as chasing the numbers. I know my list of overseas visits pales into insignificance compared to some, but I enjoy myself and I've been to many more places than some of my non-spotting friends.

But it's not just the numbers - I'm just as happy sitting at the end of a runway photographing the inbounds, even if I only "make" one or two all day. Likewise, watching sheer brute force make something weighing tons effectively weightless is still something I marvel at. Just how do C-5s fly? It never looks like they're trying hard enough.

Off to Fairford this weekend for a good deafening - hope to see many of you there!

Regards

Jim

Interesting thread going on here.

I started spotting at Blackpool when around 8yr old. Continued until I discovered the female form, where my efforts took a different direction!

Returned to the hobby as a photographer and have travelled widely as a result.

I always enjoy visiting the US as, wherever I go, I notice people watching my actions but always wary of approaching. As soon as I make conversation with them I discover they're fascinated by the hobby. I believe the term 'Tail number collector' is used in the States.

I reckon the only other nation to follow spotting, to the levels in the UK, are the cloggies!

Anyway I get paid to shoot my favourite subjects;

1) fast jets at air shows.
2) flying boats and float planes.
3) motorsport events.
4) model portfolio's.

Yes the latter is my particular favourite but what do you expect?

Fast jets, slow props, fast bikes and faster women!

Regards

Reggie (AKA The Cameraman)

working at an airport, and flying 172's, atm i'm getting plenty of casual spotting in, but the most memorable was sitting on the car aprk roof top at kai tuk, watching the big jets, i even got a classic sky shot of a KLM 742 crossing the road at about 400ft above the mcd's

Most professional pilots do have a genuine interest in aviation at the start, otherwise they wouldn`t go through all the crap needed to gain their ATPL !

I will say however that the interest CAN wear off when you`re working in that environment everyday, so much as to say it gets fairly tedious at times. I think this is probably a major reason why "spotters" get that reaction from ppl working within the aviation industry especially. We simply just forget what we were like at the start and don`t understand how ppl can get so enthusiastic about it !

I fully agree that this thread is interesting, I have lots of time for aircraft spotters, and can't really understand the "ribbing" they get from professionals in the industy. I live close to manchester airport and have done for pretty much the whole of my life. My interest in aviation almost definately started as a result from the tender age of six or seven.

I have endured many times sitting around in the freezing cold, writing down numbers with my pals. It hasn't done me any long term harm! In fact a career change at 30, with ATPL and now flying the B.737 I can really think back, reflecting on how lucky I was to be bitten by the bug.

Keep it up you lot, it is nice to have keen enthusiasts looking on as I taxi past.