Vulcan to the Skies.
 

Hi All,
I never am sure which forum to post to, so feel free to move me if you wish!
Anyone know when the Vulcan is due for a test flight, the website indicates that all will be on schedule for the Falklands Memorial Flypastk, so I would assume that it would have to be in the next couple of months...

Hi Scud - difficult to know, as you say, which forum this belongs in, but since it will be very much a 'spotters' event we'll leave it here for the time being. There are threads in Aviation History here and here and the Mil forum you can watch for news.

Is this realistic?? I thought I heard a few years ago that there was no way at all that the CAA would ever permit a Vulcan to fly again, especially in private hands...

Would be amazed if the CAA did NOT allow it. How could they allow all this fundraising (including millions of pounds of lottery cash) to be wasted on something that would not fly again.
From what I have read, the aircraft will be in many parts virtually brand new under the skin, and besides, do I not see a WW2 Bomber flying on regular occasions?

Since when has the CAA been in existence to worry about fundraising?? Call me stoopid :} but I thought one of its main purposes in life was to ensure the safety of aircrew, passengers and all those lovely people on the ground. I would say a Vulcan was a bloody dangerous aircraft to fly when it was in service, let alone after many years mouldering on the ground. There's no way you can compare a Lancaster with four lovely Merlins to a Cold War monster with thumping great jet engines (Olympi??)

IMHO, I would be pretty surprised if the CAA allowed it to fly at all, especially from a British airfield where you are inevitably flying over the general public whichever direction you take. Way way too risky, and that's definitely not in the CAA's job description.

Dream on, guys...

I thought the CAA were working with the Vulcan guys

G-I-B

Even if the CAA were to "ware it" the insurance issue would be a greater obstacle.

Take a look here at the web site

As they might know a bit more about the issues than most of us and may be able to get a Vulcan flying again....

Just a thought. It is common knowledge that the Woodford Vulcan is to be scrapped. Would it be practical to arrange a final photo shoot charging an entrance fee with the money going towards the Bruntingthorpe Vulcan?

Good point re the insurance: just what would be the Public Liability quote???

I still maintain that this is Fantasy Island - I knew an ex-Vulcan pilot some years ago, and you had to have top-of-the-line military flying skills to handle the beast. And with the best will in the world, you've got civilians 'responsible' for what was a Serious Military Machine. And no Vulcan has flown anywhere for, what, nearly 25 years???

I just hope that all the people giving money and fundraising are aware that there is a very high chance (IMHO) that the Vulcan will NOT fly. Has anyone asked the CAA what they think??

[quote=oldlag53;3079385]Good point re the insurance: just what would be the Public Liability quote???

I still maintain that this is Fantasy Island - I knew an ex-Vulcan pilot some years ago, and you had to have top-of-the-line military flying skills to handle the beast. And with the best will in the world, you've got civilians 'responsible' for what was a Serious Military Machine. And no Vulcan has flown anywhere for, what, nearly 25 years???

[quote]

...and how many 4-engined tailwheel pilots are being trained for the Lancaster/B17

There will be enough pilots able and willing to teach their successors, just as there are for the Hunters.

oldlag53
the vulcan flew in the 90's, not sure exactly when but certainly a lot less than 25 years ago, there are plenty of older aircraft than that flying around too, all certified by the caa.
also, surely its inconceivable that all the fundraising and restoration would be done without knowledge of whether the caa would approve the aircraft for flight?

The website is quite comprehensive and a few few minutes reeading thro the various topics would help answer in detail many of the concerns being raised.

The entire engineering effort is being done to a set of requirements established in conjunction with the CAA and using properly accredited engineering resources....in order to gain CAA approval once complete. It is not being done on a whim and a hope....

The proposed flight crew is comprised of ex-Vulcan Display Flight crew, who were the last to fly a Vulcan as well as other ex-Vulcan crew members. In order to refresh their memories and practice cockpit drills they have a separate Vulcan cockpit section to use as a proceedures trainer whilst 558's is u/s.

The nature of the Vulcan made it essential that the CAA and insurance world were amongst the first to be approached in the project. Either couldhave made it clear that not matter what was done there would be a shopstopping issue with them. That this has not occured measn that there is a real hope (cash flow allowing) that 558 will fly again.

Vulcan to the Skies / Falklands 25th Aniv. Flypast
 

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post, just wondered if there was any news on the first flight.. I know that this has been discussed time and time again, but there is no news on the TVOC site, and if they are gonna be on that flypast, they are really gonna have to get their backside's into gear!
Any PPruner's work @ TVOC per chance?

My money would be on the 'not' option and you are dead right, it's all gone remarkably quiet on the Vulcan front.

Anyone have any news.............

This is on the Vulcan to the Sky website as of a day or so ago:

XH558 Appearances 2007
Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - TVOC

As you can imagine many people are keen (understatement!) to have
XH558 attend their airshow this year.

We are at the moment making no commitments, but we are collecting requests, for decisions later in the year.

With a first test flight currently planned for approximately the beginning of the 2nd quarter, we won't be committing to any air display attendance until after that.

I'm sorry for the uncertainty but, as you can imagine, our main focus at the moment is a safe and successful return to flight.

Dr Robert Pleming
CEO VTST

3rd April 2007

Sounds like good news, first flight test due any day now?

Worthy cause
 

With reference to the previous post, may I point you to my post on the 'Miltary aircrew' thread - currently page 2 - ' Sea Harrier at Falklands Anniversary'.

Would love to see the Vulcan there too, but I can't help thinking it unlikely - that's a personal view & I have no inside knowledge of that project.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to throw money - a very great deal less than the Vulcan - in the way of the team or offer moral support ( I am not a team member just have been in contact through interest, as I used to be a tech' photographer on the Harrier Test Team - see also www.harrier.org.uk/history , scroll down to 'Harrier Testing'.

The main snag facing the SHAR is a recent rule about single engined aircraft over London, though they allow griffon engined Spitfires & the Red Arrows !

In the '80's they flew heaps of Merlin Spits' & Hurricanes over for the Battle of Britain Anniversary...

Good luck to the Vulcan and the Seajet !

Andy

Ex PM Maggie Thatcher visited Bruntingthorpe a couple of weeks ago to see the Vulcan.
My 10p worth, I think the Vulcan would look awesome in it's Cold War white paint scheme, maybe Dulux would sponsor it.:)

Not sure if this has been mentioned, and I know it is followed by all the "subject to" discliamers, BUT the Vulcan is penciled in for 5th May @ Duxford!:O

Not sure if this has been mentioned, and I know it is followed by all the "subject to" discliamers, BUT the Vulcan is penciled in for 5th May @ Duxford!

How realistic is this? Would love to see the Vulcan fly again and it's just down the road from me.

Hi Guys!
I was at some of the last Vulcan shows back in '93 - awsome:ok:
Since then, I've followed progress and occasionally - like many PPRuners, added a bit of cash to the kitty.
Latest news is that the undercarriage units are ready to be fitted, control surfaces and PFCUs are pretty much ready, and the wiring in the cockpit and other areas is almost there.
I think there were some minor issues with corrosion but that these have largely been resolved.
The flight crew, comprising of ex vulcan crew members (including ex display captain Dave Thomas (a PPRuner by any chance???)) know more about flying vulcans than anyone else and will, no doubt, put on a superb performance:D .
Most of the parts have been restored by the "OEMs" - Original equipment manufacturers - often for free, and these are flooding back to the hangar:ok:
It seems that the aeroplane will be much lighter due to removal of lots of redundant cabling (eg stuff that was labelled "mine laying"!!) and some fuel tanks - this will probably make the display a different prospect as it will not be as noisy as in the past.
Its all looking very promising for the next few months and the CAA, from what I can gather, have been very supportive of the project over the last couple of years.
Can't wait to see her fly again - not long now...:E

I suspect May is unrealistic. On the website he is talking of our determined efforts to meet the 17 June deadline for our magnificent aircraft to lead that flypast over London to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the South Atlantic campaign

However the following From 7th May for 7 days we are offering 15% off all VTS Merchandise bought in the shop!

Oh yes, I can see that realism pervades every aspect of this project. Next month? No, that's not realistic. The month after?? Oh yes, we plan to be ready to fly a Vulcan over one of the most heavily-populated areas of the UK.

For goodness sake, give us a break...

<<BUT the Vulcan is penciled in for 5th May @ Duxford!>>

I cannot find reference to any event at Duxford on 5th May.......???

Vulcan airborne
 

Everybody is apparently keeping their fingers crossed to hear of the Vulcan's first flight. My local authority have provisionally booked the Vulcan to fly at Airbourne at Eastbourne sometime between the 16th and 19th August this year.

OK, at the risk of getting flamed, I'm going to be Devil's Advocate yet again. What annoys me more than anything else is that many fans are spending hard-earned cash on a project that doesn't seem to be remotely realistic. A quick visit to the XH558 site will show that the aircraft is still in many many pieces all over the hangar floor, and yet supposedly there are going to be airshow appearances all over the UK this year!!

Just someone please please give a sensible answer to the following questions:

1. How much is it going to cost to fly for EACH airshow appearance??

2. The following aircraft have not been given a Permit to Fly in the UK:
EE Lightning
Buccaneer
Shackleton

In what way does the Vulcan qualify when these aircraft don't??

3. Area 51 Aviation is an ex-military jet maintenance operation based at North Weald, so presumably they know a thing or two. Their website states the following:
'The CAA only permit aircraft in the simple and intermediate category of complexity'

In what way is the Vulcan exempted from this policy??

I'd like to see a Vulcan flying again as much as the next man, but what is the actual realistic percentage chance of this happening??

It will never fly.Far too complex and with the CAA as they are it hasn't got a hope .Even Concorde got too complex to maintain in flying status and that supposedly made money .
Just hope no one is on the make :eek: down there in Brunters ,not good for all those enthusiasts doing their bit :D

...................................................

Forget, I'm not sure of your purpose in posting the statement from Dr Fleming, but if it's to show the 'true situation', then for goodness' sake, get real. Look at the webcams on the official site - does the plane look to you like it's going to be ready for a test flight 'by the end of May' ???

Since when does any aircraft - let alone one that hasn't flown in 14 years, is ex-military, and is 50-year-old technology, take part in airshows within weeks of a test flight????

Like Racing Snake, I am now wondering exactly what is in the heads of the people at Bruntingthorpe. Just how much money has been donated so far???

:eek:

Well - if you're not sure of something, as you admit, it's always wise to wind ones neck in. There was no 'purpose' other than to post a recent statement. Up to you what you make of it.

Concorde had to stop flting because EADS withdrew their support. EADS had taken over the design authority. Under present EASA legislation if any aircraft type loses it's factory support it will become an annex 2 aircraft.

The latest under that legislation is a proposal to make evrything build before I believe 1970 annex 2.

That in turn means that the aircraft can be operated on a permit.

The Vulcan to sky project is a most sincere project and includes some of the most reputable maintenance companies in the UK, Marshall's of Cambridge is one of them. Components have now started to arrive back from overhaul and it'll take the guys a couple of weeks to put it back together.

To give you some comparison, A Boeing 747 d-check takes usually around 5- 6 weeks. When the aircraft arrives it takes less than 5 days to take it apart, even stripping the paint. Bits and bobs will be all over the hangar floor, but hey presto a couple weeks later that same aircarft take you and family away on holidays or poses for the picture you take from your stepladder.

Problem for the Vulcan group is that it takes a small army to accomplish the above with the 747, they lack in manpower and therefore it'll take a bit longer. This project started the day 558 was bought at auction.

What's going to be a big problem here is the insurance for displaying 558 as insurance is now mandatory and at almost a 100 tons gross weight that's not going to be cheap. The CAA is on board for the project.
As a matter of fact the group as already put in an apllication for permit/CofA.

At least give it a chance!
 

Hi all
A few simple questions for you all,
1) Why do so many people on this forum want so desperately for this project to fail?
2) How well qualified are those of you who describe so graphically this giant jigsaw that will never go back together again, to comment on such things?
3) have any of you have ever seen an airliner in the hangar just a couple of days before it takes you half way around the world on holiday?
I am one of those guys you see at Bruntingthorpe in overalls climbing all over the aircraft (but not the Vulcan), I do however meet the guys and gals who do work on, and support her on a very regular basis. I also happen to be an A Licensed Aircraft Engineer, so I am well placed to comment on the progress I see.
I can tell you that they are all working very hard and very professionally to meet there target dates, they are doing there best, and it is already a fantastic achievement. The dedication of the volunteers who man the stalls at airshows, and who turn up at Bruntingthorpe regularly, and for no pay, is to be applauded. It is so easy to sit at home on your PC, and throw virtual eggs at these people over the internet, but at least let the project fail before you criticise the hard work and dedication that has driven this project from day one.
These people have given over large chunks of there lives to this project, lets show them all a little respect, when she does take to the air again (and it will be very soon) will all of you doubters stand and watch in awe like the rest of us, or will you go and find a new project to knock?

Supremely, and don't you ever doubt it. According to one of oldlag53's earlier posts he "once knew a Vulcan pilot." :hmm:

1) I don't think any of us want it to fail .We are just being realistic
2) 20 years in aviation professionally.Seen a lot pie in the sky ventures
3) Yes i have .I'm the one sitting up front flying it half way around the world

Like Racing Snake, I too do not want to see the project fail. However, what worries me is that 1000s of enthusiasts have donated cash on the basis that the aircraft will fly and take part in airshows. I (and others) have reasonable doubts about the viability of flight and airshow participation because there is no current evidence to back it up.

I notice that not a single one of my valid questions has been answered. Why is that???

I am tired of hearing that the 'CAA is on board with the project'. Well, of course they are - it's a government agency that's not going to go around pouring cold water on anything. BUT, they will want solid evidence that the aircraft is safe to stooge around above people's heads at airshows. The project team is presumably having to pass one hurdle after another as they approach the Permit to Fly. BUT, if they fall at just one - it's back to the drawing board.

Such as - does the plane (sic) look to you like it's going to be ready for a test flight 'by the end of May' ???

One guy, second from the left back row, who’s seen many Vulcans in a thousand bits (sometimes deliberate, sometimes otherwise), says ‘No obvious reason why not.’

Patience my son, patience.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/jkigg.jpg

I'm sure all the enthusiasts that have put money towards the project know there is a strong chance it won't fly. Personally I'm pleasantly surprised it's got as far as it has. Where we differ from Oldlag53 and Racing snake is that we don't regard the facts that success is not assured and that costs are difficult to predict as a reason for not trying.

It was obvious right from the start that problems such as corrosion would be found, and yet the identification of every issue seems to be regarded as a sign of incompetence or worse, rather than of progress being achieved.

Incidentally the main issue with flying 'complex' aircraft on a permit to fly is support from the design authority. This is what stopped the Lightning, Buccaneer and I believe Shackleton from flying. There is no blanket ban whatever Area51 might say.

Has the Vulcan thread gone quiet, sincerely the answer would have to be no on all fronts as anyone following the project via the TVOC website would testify, not going to restate the progress so far, go to the website and take a look, better still join up and toss a few coins in the bucket.
Will 558 fly down the Mall, possibly, but does it really matter after all, considering the life span of this project both to date and envisaged if it flew this year at all is not the issue, that it will fly again is.

As to Area 51’s website announcements on types considered for Permits to fly, they have their view based on experience however it should be noted that given the approach that the Vulcan Operating Company has taken on this, the CAA approval for the project is not Tacit in nature but confirmed and given that all the required criteria are met a permit to fly will be issued when required.

That 558 is considered a complex airframe is nothing to do with the issue, and this would also apply to types like the Buccaneer, Shackleton or even the lightning all of which could be returned to flight status given the right organisational and financial support.

558 will fly because it is supported by what is essentially the infrastructure for a one plane airline and for no other reason, if that was not present it is doubtful any of those involved would have got any where near the chance to fly her again.

So for the knockers and doubters it has been suggested that you watch progress over the next six weeks or so, if all goes according to plan and no further problems arise we should all be able to make a guess as to when 558 is released to operations again.

I have nothing to do with Area 51, but surely the fact that their statement is based on experience makes it more relevant??

What utter rubbish - you clearly have never had any dealings with the CAA - their approval is neither tacit nor confirmed. There will be strict written criteria set down, which the project will have to pass to the letter, and then, only then, will any approval be forthcoming.

Missed my point entirely - the Buccaneer and Lightning HAVE been returned to flight status, but are NOT approved to fly in the UK. I believe both examples fly in South Africa.