Concorde Fleet Rebellion
 

A little bird has told me that British Airways plans for a spectacular send-off for Concorde in September and October look likely to be in tatters, and the guys flying the aircraft may just down tools.

BA Management, with their usual sensitivity, have decreed that all the final flights (LHR-JFK-LHR and LHR-BGI-LHR) will be flown by Management pilots. My mate tells me that an internal memo states that only the Management pilots can be trusted not to do something silly and spectacular on those flights. The same goes for all the Celebration flights in October, when Concorde is planned to visit many airfields, both in the UK and abroad, as well as the final delivery flights.

The regular line guys are pretty cut up about it all, and have sent a letter to Rod Eddington. The word is that nothing will be done, and that "Porky" Bannister will end up doing most of the flights, and, coincidentally, appearing in most of the newspapers and history books.
:rolleyes:

The final nail in the coffin is the the 20 or so Flight Engineers on the Concorde Fleet are the last within BA. When Concorde goes, so do they. So far, all the company has offered this group of highly-regarded professionals with about 600 years in aviation between them is early retirement (with just a pension), or, in a latest and in my view insulting twist offering them the position of Cabin Crew on a temporary basis.
:*

Morale is pretty low, and the line pilots (Captains as well as First Officers) are just about as mutinous as the Flight Engineers.

Has anyone else heard anything?

Watch this space next month.

PiC 744 LHR

"in my view insulting twist offering them the position of Cabin Crew on a temporary basis!!"

What do you have against Cabin Crew then?

Very good CRM I think not!!!

As for the Flight Engineers, out the door as no longer required, on 'modern' types'...big mistake IMO but nevertheless, a fact.

As for the Concorde pilots, it is NOT their decision, the management pilots call the shots, like it or not....and most won't.
Tough beans.

IF they 'walk out', sack 'em immediately, period.

If these turkeys had wanted to be the big shots...they should have applied when the position was offered.:sad:

<< If these turkeys had wanted to be the big shots...they should have applied when the position was offered >>

They did, but there was a problem, and they found out that they weren't eligible to be managers.

Their parents were married you see...

I suggested on another thread that this workforce were on another planet.

The "spitting out the dummy" scenario described above does'nt do anything to change my mind.



"I wanna have MY photo taken."

"No, I want MY photo taken."

"Well I'm not playing then."

"You're porky."

"Well, you're.....smelly"

:rolleyes:



......and I'd love to compare the F/E pension, no doubt inflation proofed, to my Capts. salary with an independent airline.

....or maybe you'd better not tell me. :( :{

Such are the penalties for getting into aviation at too late an age.

Well what do you expect the company to do for the FE's?

Greetings to everyone,

Sounds a little unfair, especially for those guys who have flown Concord for all these years, they should have had a draw or something to see who would get the final flights.. For example every pilot gets 1 ballot for every year experience he has flying on Concord.

Also, those pilots, what will they do after? Is BA going to put them on the 777 or 747 ?

Cheers!

We all knew who would extract the final trips, but surely "Porky" cannot fly them all.

How many other managers are left? Is "Les" still there?

"only the Management pilots can be trusted not to do something silly and spectacular on those flights"

I still remember the manager on the BAC111 who tried to take centre stage when they opened a new taxyway at Manchester. He arranged to have a red ribbon streached between two poles across said taxyway through which he planned to taxi! Alas he did not chexk the wingspan of the BAC111 and clattered into the poles with the leading edges.

"only the Management pilots can be trusted not to do something silly"
- Just like the Concorde management pilot who ran out of fuel just after landing at LHR all those years ago...... (allegedly):mad:

I believe that particular pilots award of the OBE a few years before was said to stand for 'Over Brentford Empty'

Euro ATC,
The pilots on the fleet (like any other fleet getting run down) can put in a bid for any of the fleets within BA. Most, if not all of the FO's will have the seniority for Commands on certainly shorthaul, and possibly longhaul.
Hope this helps.

411a Why is it the mere appearance of your handle on a thread is enough to make me leave?

Concorde Flight engineers as Cabin Crew?

£70,000+ PA as cabin crew ! should raise a few eyebrows down the back of the early 757 to paris.

JH ( the head of cabin crew), really has lost the plot this time

411A

You really take the prize for the biggest pr!ck left on this forum. Opinionated, ignorant and what sprouts from your keyboard gives idiots a bad name. Do us all a favour and disappear up your own a**e.

OBE,over Bovingdon empty actually and not bovingTON.As for management flying can you imagine what a liability they are when 2 of them,bothe being captains fly together!

Re the FE's
 

Perhaps this is Rod's way of getting back at the ridiculous situation he inherited at Ansett, where the 767 FE's were contracted on full pay & didn't have to fly AT ALL!:rolleyes: Alas, prior management had done the deed & guaranteed the jobs for life.:suspect:

"2 captains together is a recipe for disaster "
I would not even think of a rhyme for 2 managers together...

P.S : EuroATC, it is ConcordE, lots of history in that "e "....:E

You're a fine one to query spelling!!!

411a you pathetic little soul: with your management skills your airline would last perhaps three months, and would deserve less.

This is the twenty first century, not the nineteenth. No doubt in the walter mitty world where you seem to live you can strut around like a mill-owner and lash out at the poor proletarians who work for you. The real world is a different place. Everyone has their pride and believe me, before you come up with some sad observation like "you cant eat pride", people can be pushed so far and then the point is reached where rationality no longer matters. Bullying and or crass insensitivity usually does it. But, hey, everyone who is so blatantly stupid as to work in professional aviation is so cringingly-needy to be there in the first place that they deserve to be treated like stupid little kids at school, dont they?

All of your posts seem designed to be gratuitously offensive to anyone who works in the industry. I wonder who you really are or what your motives might be? Either way, you render pprune a sadder place to visit.

F.CB : I am not for Yorkshire, but thanks anyway, but the "e " still hurts a bit I know...:E sorry about that.

Flying For Fun?
 

loaded1, I hope that you don't fly aeroplanes, looks like you might need help.

And here we have the so-called 'best of the best', :ooh: Concorde line pilots who are ready to throw their toys out of the pram, just because they don't get to fly the last few flights.
A better idea would be for BA management to scrap the rest of the Concorde schedule, turn 'em into beer cans and re-assign the malcontent Concorde pilots to a 'lesser' fleet...or perhaps the unemployment line.
Aw, poor babies....:{ :{

Interesting thread.

On the one hand the poor, downtrodden, so-badly-treated victims of a "porky", parentless, out-of-fuel, Over Brentford and grudge-ridden management.

On the other hand, the few who could be bothered to respond to this mass sulk with their opinions based upon experience of the real world.

loaded1 thinks that he knows what the real world is like....
Is the real world a different place ? Try working for some of the bosses of the independent airlines. The phrase "mill owners" is frighteningly appropriate in most cases. You people live in another world.

411A - I agree with everything in your first post and all but "turn 'em into beer cans" of your second post and I'd like the spoilt brats on the remainder of this thread to take note.

Strikes me that we have a conflict here between the non BA contributors who perceive BA Concorde pilots as "the best of the best" and a "priviledged few" with all the perks that go with that, and the BA insiders who know that the opposite is actually the case. That fact ,coupled with the personalities involved means that a lot of people are raising eyebrows at junior,relatively inexperienced Concorde pilots "bagging" all the jollies for themselves. A bit like the management extracting the Royal and PM tours. The job of manager in BA means one sits in an office and manges the fleet and pilots . Where does it state though shalt pre extract all the decent trips? Why isn´t BALPA making more of a fuss?

That's the last straw.

No wonder they issue memos suggesting you lot can't be trusted not to do something silly.

Whenever I've been asked if I had an ultimate ambition in aviation, I'd always reply "Concorde pilot." When I see what I'd have to share a cockpit with, all of my regrets at not achieving that just disappear.

Final post/visit from me on this thread. I've got better things to do than waste my breath.

:mad:

I'm waiting for someone to define "something silly or spectacular". What exactly is the ESTABLISHMENT concerned about.

A Fly By the LHR TWR at Mach1 +:ok:

If the mgmt cannot trust their staff to perform their duties without doing something silly or spectacular on one day - then they cannot trust them on any day.

Plainly, that is nonsense, as they trust them every day.

Therefore, this sounds like a ruse to get the fun 'gig'. I wonder if the management had anticipated this problem when the closure was announced, worked out which of the gigs would be fun and then shared them out accordingly, so that (as far as was possible) everyone got some fun? If they did - then they can be called good management.

If BA management doesn't trust its line pilots, then neither do I. Another reason not to fly with Nigel........

Unfortunately for you perhaps, Carruthers, not only do I fly aeroplanes for a living but I've been doing it for well over a decade now. My reply was directed at 411a's interminably negative posts whenever flightcrew personnel are the topic, rather than the merits or otherwise of the reputed argument between BA and its Concorde crews.

To refer to flight engineers with the phrase "bin 'em" or similar is, as I stated in regard to all of 411a's post, gratuitously offensive to my mind, not a constructive contribution to any rational debate and more akin to someone who seems to seek to be deliberately provocative with no other end in mind than to cause offense. Or perhaps 411a knows otherwise and would like to make such a remark face to face to a man who has served his company and his profession for, I gather in some cases, over three decades. I bet he wouldn't dare, but isn't that what makes the internet such fun for people like 411a?

I've also worked outside aviation for a long spell in order to pay for the privilege of getting there at all. I am therefore very aware that employment practise has changed a long way elsewhere, and its more than lamentable for ALL of those in the aviation industry that the attitudes that are spoken of by so many on this forum persist for professional aviators. Quite honestly the attitudes alluded to on this forum as being common to airline employers should serve as a warning to young people thinking of entering professional aviation.

Anthony C. Said:

"......and I'd love to compare the F/E pension, no doubt inflation proofed, to my Capts. salary with an independent airline."

As one of the Flight Engineers affected, and at 51 years of age, I can confidentially tell you that after 33 years in aviation, and 14,000 flying hours, my pension will be less than the Average National Salary. And that's considerably less than you probably receive as a Captain in an independant airline.
:(
And how I WISH it were inflation proofed.

BEagle

...If BA management doesn't trust its line pilots, then neither do I...

Surprised and saddened to hear that from someone of your experience.

Does this faith in management also extend to your own senior managers?

Say, just for example, Wratten or Day?

Thought not.

Regards

Bellerophon

At the end of the day its the management snouts in the bleeding trough!

Bellerophon, no, what I meant was, if the alleged management really did express such a lack of confidence in their well-trained line pilots, then why should anyone else trust them either?

In other words, to assert that the regular Concorde pilots might not be suitably trustworthy to be permitted to fly the aircraft on its final flights is scandalous. Either they're as excellent as everyone believes, or they're not. If the former, then it should be 'names in the hat' for the twilight Concorde flights; if the latter then don't ever expect people to fly BA in the future.

So 'management', wake up and smell the coffee. Your alleged denigration of your regular guys and girls is unworthy and will do nothing to further your airline's reputation.

But I'm sorry - until King and Marshall and the rest from the 'Dirty Tricks' era have been $hitcanned once and for all, then I will never, ever fly BA. Particularly since Rod has now murdered Concorde, the only thing which made BA in any way special.

And as for Wratten and Day.......see the Chinook thread!

Beagle

Thank you for that, I had obviously misunderstood your post.

As for the Chinook thread - which as you will know is a particularly poignant and emotive topic for one of our retired colleagues – rest assured that Nigel is firmly on the same side as Brian Dixon, et al. Hopefully, not too much longer to wait now.

Regards

Bellerophon

411A......Still eagerly awaiting 2 things:

1) An American airliner which can transport me from JFK to LHR as quickly and comfortably as the Concorde and...
2) You're Hong Kong-based Tristar freight operation where you will put your impeccable management skills to use. Recall your posts about how you were coming to HK to show all the malconents how a real airline worked. It was imminent some years ago. Must be even more imminent now I guess. So when will your L1011's roll down the tarmac at CLK?

Al,

Not L10's, DC10's....and not CLK, but CRK.
And, very shortly.:ok:

Twotun

Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, I ask why you expect to be treated any diffently than the thousands of miners, who, when their workplace became an anachronism, had to move on. And they did it without early retirement or a fat pension.

Having to retread at fifty-one is hardly the end of the world. Get real.

I don't know how often your management pilots fly but I'd rather be behind someone who is flying four or five days a week and really up to speed with the aircraft and what's going on.

I reckon the last thing a line pilot will do on a final flight is something stupid. After all he is probably going on a conversion course and won't want any "baggage" to follow him to his new fleet.

MP:ok:

411A

DC-10's?! From Cork??!!*&^@#$%!!!!!!
Good Luck! Let us all know when you come back to reality!!
I think that you,and your rust buckets, have spent too much time in the baking Arizona sun.

Meanwhile,back on Planet Earth...
...I feel sorry for the F/E's and the line crews because
a) It IS the end of an era.
b) They will have to cope with ENFORCED major lifestyle changes if they intend to stay with BA.
c) They were denied the chance to carry on operating the Big Bird albeit with VS by BA (mis) management's spoilt brattish, arrogant, "We can't make any money out of it,so no one else can either!" attitude.
Who chooses BA managers? They were given EVERYTHING when they were privatised so they should have made money from day1 but they've blown it all.
I even feel a little pity for Bannister himself.If he persists with his intensions and stands by his reasons,then he will have to live with being probably the most hated individual in aviation and in today's climate he's up against some pretty stiff competition for that title.
But I reserve most of my pity for the poor,green eyed Yanks who STILL haven't quite got over the fact that the Brits and the Frogs achieved something that they never could.:ok: