American ATPL Desperate to Leave the US, Can Anyone Help?
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I just re-discovered this thread... it's topic of discussion keeps getting hijacked, but ok....
I'm an American living in Europe (Germany)... 34 years now! I grew up in the most beautiful city of the world, San Diego. Now who would trade San Diego for GERMANY???? well, at the time it seemed the right thing to do, afterall I met, then married, a Lufthansa pilot.... he had been in San Diego for his training.
In the mean time we're divorced and I'm still living here. I try to visit home once a year and there was a time when I was considering going back. But, after checking job opportunites and benefits, plus visiting with old class mates and realising they really don't know anything about the rest of the world (the USA seems to be one big island)... I decided, yes, it's a nice place to visit... but live there? hmmmm.. maybe I've become too Europeanised (after 34 years kind of unavoidable) ... and, I also have here my kids, in the mean time a great job and I think adjusting to life in the USA would be difficult... I think I would "compare" too much ("in Europe we don't do that, in Europe we do it this way... ").
I could get the Germany citizenship anytime, immediately, but I would have to give up my American one (my kids have both because their dad is German, mom American, but I can't get both... darn!).... NO WAY am I going to give up my American citizenship! It's still a part of ME, of my personality, of my upbringing. I experience no discrimination, so no problem (I even work for the German government so if they don't mind, why should I? ooooops, did I "out" myself??).
@DreamBoy
Learning the local language is definetly a must.
Getting a job will be very difficult because the unemployment rate among ATPL's is extremely high at the moment, as well as in the general employment fields (unemployment about 13% at the moment in some places). As an American you are unable to get a job at the European Aerospace Agency or some other pure European authorities... I know, I tried! Though I think, if it was necessary, a fight in court could amend that because you're not allowed to discriminate over here.
If you have the chance, then come over and see Europe, experience the European life style, but don't get your hopes up too high.
Good luck!
Westy
I'm an American living in Europe (Germany)... 34 years now! I grew up in the most beautiful city of the world, San Diego. Now who would trade San Diego for GERMANY???? well, at the time it seemed the right thing to do, afterall I met, then married, a Lufthansa pilot.... he had been in San Diego for his training.
In the mean time we're divorced and I'm still living here. I try to visit home once a year and there was a time when I was considering going back. But, after checking job opportunites and benefits, plus visiting with old class mates and realising they really don't know anything about the rest of the world (the USA seems to be one big island)... I decided, yes, it's a nice place to visit... but live there? hmmmm.. maybe I've become too Europeanised (after 34 years kind of unavoidable) ... and, I also have here my kids, in the mean time a great job and I think adjusting to life in the USA would be difficult... I think I would "compare" too much ("in Europe we don't do that, in Europe we do it this way... ").
I could get the Germany citizenship anytime, immediately, but I would have to give up my American one (my kids have both because their dad is German, mom American, but I can't get both... darn!).... NO WAY am I going to give up my American citizenship! It's still a part of ME, of my personality, of my upbringing. I experience no discrimination, so no problem (I even work for the German government so if they don't mind, why should I? ooooops, did I "out" myself??).
@DreamBoy
Learning the local language is definetly a must.
Getting a job will be very difficult because the unemployment rate among ATPL's is extremely high at the moment, as well as in the general employment fields (unemployment about 13% at the moment in some places). As an American you are unable to get a job at the European Aerospace Agency or some other pure European authorities... I know, I tried! Though I think, if it was necessary, a fight in court could amend that because you're not allowed to discriminate over here.
If you have the chance, then come over and see Europe, experience the European life style, but don't get your hopes up too high.
Good luck!
Westy
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Airway,
"Like me one day i would love to fly in Australia, like there is Australians flying here in the Uk, anything wrong with that?"
One of our male Flight Attendants is an Aussie. I asked him, "What the hell brought you to the U.S?" His answer (accent added):
"Auy loike ahhgly wimmin!"
(To which my mind wanders...
USA= Chelea Clinton
Austrailia= Olivia Neutron Bomb)
'Nuff said.
PT
"Like me one day i would love to fly in Australia, like there is Australians flying here in the Uk, anything wrong with that?"
One of our male Flight Attendants is an Aussie. I asked him, "What the hell brought you to the U.S?" His answer (accent added):
"Auy loike ahhgly wimmin!"
(To which my mind wanders...
USA= Chelea Clinton
Austrailia= Olivia Neutron Bomb)
'Nuff said.
PT
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I left the US of A around 30 years ago because the only flying job I could find was overseas. Then met and married a British Cabin Attendant (Stewardess we called them in those days) Since then I have lived mainly in the UK (if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy) with forays to some of the less developed parts of the world. I visit the states regularly, but to be honest, I like the experience of living overseas, eating strange foods (Bubble & squeak etc.) and believe it or not, English beer. As the age of retirement approaches, we are considering moving back to the States, but it isn't our first priority. Having gotten used to the expat life, I recommend it highly. Get out of your "America is the only place in the world to live" mentality and there are lots of options. Be open minded and go for it. It's really quite enjoyable. 
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Europe? what is that?
3 countries: canada, USA , and mexico it's all I know. So what are you talking about?, where is Europe?, South of mexico?, close of Irak?.
Please, explain me!
Hulk
A US educated citizen
3 countries: canada, USA , and mexico it's all I know. So what are you talking about?, where is Europe?, South of mexico?, close of Irak?.
Please, explain me!
Hulk
A US educated citizen
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"Please, explain me!"
I'll try to explain you, you sound like an angry young male who had aviation training in the US because of the expense in your country was prohibitive. Now back in your country, you are frustrated like many others and lash out at Americans from behind the safety of your computer. I think perhaps there is an inferiority complex involved, smallish unit perhaps. Lashing out from the internet makes you feel like a big man. How's that?
I'll try to explain you, you sound like an angry young male who had aviation training in the US because of the expense in your country was prohibitive. Now back in your country, you are frustrated like many others and lash out at Americans from behind the safety of your computer. I think perhaps there is an inferiority complex involved, smallish unit perhaps. Lashing out from the internet makes you feel like a big man. How's that?
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Two parts:
Part oneA: Agreed that a lot of Americans are not completely versed with the rest of the world (even the great vast country up north, as they think we ALL live in igloos and our country is actually much smaller than US), but US is truly the country that everyone loves to hate until they need them! They generally lead the way in our 'global village', and they (along with a lot of other places) are the land of the free and brave, but in 300 million people you are bound to have some disagreement.
B: As proud as we may be of our origins, we have to think universally in today's world. Posts about the 'few chosen ones that were born in the promised land' are not very constructive since we are all born as noble beings-wherever that might be.
Part2: As for the original question: Some less than healthy comments on this thread are exactly why it is healthy for us to do get out of our buble and explore the rest of the world-and that goes for everyone. It may be a little hard to get flying jobs with low experience, but one never knows until one tries. Plus, we don't all have to be fancy-pants pilots!!
Live long and prosper!
Part oneA: Agreed that a lot of Americans are not completely versed with the rest of the world (even the great vast country up north, as they think we ALL live in igloos and our country is actually much smaller than US), but US is truly the country that everyone loves to hate until they need them! They generally lead the way in our 'global village', and they (along with a lot of other places) are the land of the free and brave, but in 300 million people you are bound to have some disagreement.
B: As proud as we may be of our origins, we have to think universally in today's world. Posts about the 'few chosen ones that were born in the promised land' are not very constructive since we are all born as noble beings-wherever that might be.
Part2: As for the original question: Some less than healthy comments on this thread are exactly why it is healthy for us to do get out of our buble and explore the rest of the world-and that goes for everyone. It may be a little hard to get flying jobs with low experience, but one never knows until one tries. Plus, we don't all have to be fancy-pants pilots!!
Live long and prosper!
Last edited by wellthis; 11th Aug 2003 at 02:24.
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The main problem for someone with a US ATPL is that it isn't an ICAO license. It might be worth thinking about getting a Canadian ATPL, since that is an ICAO license, as a first step to finding work outside the narrow boundaries of the USA and its affiliates.
Then the next problem will be having the hours and experience for anything but the bottom-level jobs. My experience has been coming up a day late and a dollar short on that, somehow, but I still have managed some sort of always being in work, at least.
Have a look in the back pages of Flight International for a basic idea of what is on offer, if anything. Things seem to be in the doldrums right now, sad to say.
I wouldn't worry too much about being desperate to leave the States. You want out, you can get out. The problem will come later when you go looking for somewhere to go back to. Then you find out that, `You can never go home again.´
Good luck, and don't mind the jeers from the Yahoos.
Then the next problem will be having the hours and experience for anything but the bottom-level jobs. My experience has been coming up a day late and a dollar short on that, somehow, but I still have managed some sort of always being in work, at least.
Have a look in the back pages of Flight International for a basic idea of what is on offer, if anything. Things seem to be in the doldrums right now, sad to say.
I wouldn't worry too much about being desperate to leave the States. You want out, you can get out. The problem will come later when you go looking for somewhere to go back to. Then you find out that, `You can never go home again.´
Good luck, and don't mind the jeers from the Yahoos.
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I don't think this Dreamer is for real, but there are several reasons for getting work overseas. All my time was with the USAF, met European girl while in USAFE, married, stationed in SoCal, got out, and wanted to live where we had lots of family to raise kids in the right family environment. SoCal is not the right environment, but it is the "Land of Wildest Police Chases!". It's a great place to visit, but I had no family there, and getting an airline job near my much more limited family in the States wasn't as easy. Plus getting a job with my current(hopefully last) company, I knew I wouldn't do as many overnights (another plus for a family man). But of course there is the money; that will probably always cause me to think if I made the right decision. But since US Air was the company I was closest to being hired with before I got hired over here, I know I'd be furloughed right now, and probably flying over some sand somewhere.
For all you warning this guy to 'not let the door hit' him on the way out, he could easily have his reasons, without being a malcontent.
Tank
p.s. But I still don't think he's for real.
p.p.s. Forgot to mention, my CAA ATPL cost me a hell of alot, like 11,000 Sterling.
For all you warning this guy to 'not let the door hit' him on the way out, he could easily have his reasons, without being a malcontent.
Tank
p.s. But I still don't think he's for real.
p.p.s. Forgot to mention, my CAA ATPL cost me a hell of alot, like 11,000 Sterling.
Last edited by tankermytanker; 17th Aug 2003 at 18:24.
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CaptainJurassic.
You are obviously a man of impeccable and discerning taste, in that you enjoy the odd pint of English Bitter.
In fact, you are not alone, many of your country folk do enjoy our beer, including Madonna (If anybody saw her interview with Johnathon Ross, she extolled the virtues of "Timothy Taylor's", a hand crafted real ale from Yorkshire.
My neice from Rhode Island and her friend from Atlanta recenty visited us, and with some trepidation I introduced them to the delights of English Bitter. To my astonishment, they loved it! After all these years of listening to Australians denigrating our beer, it came as a surprise to hear something to the contrary!
Their comment was that the only US beers which come close are to be found coming from the micro breweries of Washington and Oregon.
You are obviously a man of impeccable and discerning taste, in that you enjoy the odd pint of English Bitter.
In fact, you are not alone, many of your country folk do enjoy our beer, including Madonna (If anybody saw her interview with Johnathon Ross, she extolled the virtues of "Timothy Taylor's", a hand crafted real ale from Yorkshire.
My neice from Rhode Island and her friend from Atlanta recenty visited us, and with some trepidation I introduced them to the delights of English Bitter. To my astonishment, they loved it! After all these years of listening to Australians denigrating our beer, it came as a surprise to hear something to the contrary!
Their comment was that the only US beers which come close are to be found coming from the micro breweries of Washington and Oregon.
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After reading all the posts in this thread, there's something that really strikes the eye.
First, I'm not an American... far from it. I live in Finland, up north... next to Russia
. However, as wealthy as we Finnish people are, we couldn't be farther from the American attitude, which seems pretty elitistic and self-centered. Americans seem to be proud of all the wealth they have, but they're not the only ones.
It's as if Europe were somewhat worse than the States.
I've been to Florida and N.Y. and from what I've seen there, the American mentality is not an illusion...
It strikes me as incredible that there are persons here, who will start name calling and other kinds of malignant stuff towards a person who politely asks for advise on opportunities outside of US. I thought it was an interesting topic, but lo and behold... the ever proud yankees are at it again. I've seen this kind of behaviour at internet fora many times before, but it never ceases to amaze me just how stupid and ignorant some people are.
Other than that... interesting reading. Let the flaming begin...
Tero
First, I'm not an American... far from it. I live in Finland, up north... next to Russia
. However, as wealthy as we Finnish people are, we couldn't be farther from the American attitude, which seems pretty elitistic and self-centered. Americans seem to be proud of all the wealth they have, but they're not the only ones.It's as if Europe were somewhat worse than the States.
I've been to Florida and N.Y. and from what I've seen there, the American mentality is not an illusion...
It strikes me as incredible that there are persons here, who will start name calling and other kinds of malignant stuff towards a person who politely asks for advise on opportunities outside of US. I thought it was an interesting topic, but lo and behold... the ever proud yankees are at it again. I've seen this kind of behaviour at internet fora many times before, but it never ceases to amaze me just how stupid and ignorant some people are.
Other than that... interesting reading. Let the flaming begin...
Tero
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ex raf guy in 88
AA717 driver
I know the fella you're talking about...........tash and all......great guy to fly with....he married an american if my mem serves me right.........guess he's gone from the "list" like the rest of us TWA folk.........If you ever see/speak to him tell him the lad from the arsenal said hi
gooners rule
I know the fella you're talking about...........tash and all......great guy to fly with....he married an american if my mem serves me right.........guess he's gone from the "list" like the rest of us TWA folk.........If you ever see/speak to him tell him the lad from the arsenal said hi
gooners rule
