American ATPL Desperate to Leave the US, Can Anyone Help?
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saviboy,
Welcome to the States!
YOU may have been educated about WWII but my fear is the younger kids today aren't covering that essential piece of world history. There are a bunch of German skin heads who think the Holocaust was made up and that Dachau and Treblika were movie sets. I can rememebr to this day the feeling I had as a 10 year-old boy looking at the brass gurneys at the mouths of the oven in Dachau and thinking people rode these to their deaths. The lucky ones had been gassed in the showers before. The sheer horror of this reality moved me at a young age. I thought of those my age forced to experience this hell with, or worse, without, their parents.
As for the commenst by Bus Junkie,
I disagree. I can point to examples where the extreme liberal mindset drives the politically correct agenda. If you listen to conservative talk radio, history play a large part of our choices about how to solve current problems without reexperiencing or revisiting the same pain. Lets learn from our past and make better decisions based on what we have learned.
How's that for totally hijacking the thread?
As for DreamGuy, take your passport, have a good time and keep your eyes open. To paraphrse Ah-Nold, "He'll be Baaak!"
PT
Welcome to the States!
YOU may have been educated about WWII but my fear is the younger kids today aren't covering that essential piece of world history. There are a bunch of German skin heads who think the Holocaust was made up and that Dachau and Treblika were movie sets. I can rememebr to this day the feeling I had as a 10 year-old boy looking at the brass gurneys at the mouths of the oven in Dachau and thinking people rode these to their deaths. The lucky ones had been gassed in the showers before. The sheer horror of this reality moved me at a young age. I thought of those my age forced to experience this hell with, or worse, without, their parents.
As for the commenst by Bus Junkie,
I disagree. I can point to examples where the extreme liberal mindset drives the politically correct agenda. If you listen to conservative talk radio, history play a large part of our choices about how to solve current problems without reexperiencing or revisiting the same pain. Lets learn from our past and make better decisions based on what we have learned.
How's that for totally hijacking the thread?
As for DreamGuy, take your passport, have a good time and keep your eyes open. To paraphrse Ah-Nold, "He'll be Baaak!"
PT
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I will try to put my 2 cents on this thread also but just as an answer to Your Dreamguy.
From what you said it seems that you are educated and very qualified. As a piece of advice if you want to live in Europe you could use your qualifications in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria,Poland, Romania etc). Because of their strong wish of becoming Americanized you could get accepted easier. Europe is a place where social classes barriers have not been completely eliminated. For example: I have a German friend who is an United Captain and he doesn't want to go back to Germany because overthere they still look at him as a low social class person(parents working class people).
In few words here USA we can self-made, but in Europe your birthplace fingerprint can stick for a while.
The reason I am suggesting Eastern Europe is that for now they are more open to outside exoticism and being an American is very cool. Plus overthere is more opportunities because the societies are in full transformation, more corruption also.
Aviation at a Line level impossible(generation to generation transmitted - family business). But at small level (instructing, agricultural, etc )could be possible and the reason is exotic.
Middle East is overpopulated by foreign workers. Africa by missionaries - scary place, South America only if you are part of some drug cartel or you have ministerial connections, Australia can not provide jobs to their own pilots, the Poles kind of cold.
Regarding our knowledge about the rest of the world...... kind of scary thoughts?! I have been fortunate to travel all over the world through my job so that way I got wonderful memories about wonderful places and people. On the same token I am looking to my child(goes to College this fall), finished High School and all the knowledge revolves around the Mall, Hollywood movies, and pets. When food is wasted and try to tell him children around the world are starving he gives me strange not understandable looks. It's sad but pets eat, are taken care of, live better than many people from around the world. If a homeless dies under the bridge nobody gives a damn, but if a dog is lost the whole community gets involved. Something is weird with this picture. And this is just one picture.
Good luck to you, Your_Dreamguy. If aviation is sick in USA outside is buried already - keep that in mind.
From what you said it seems that you are educated and very qualified. As a piece of advice if you want to live in Europe you could use your qualifications in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria,Poland, Romania etc). Because of their strong wish of becoming Americanized you could get accepted easier. Europe is a place where social classes barriers have not been completely eliminated. For example: I have a German friend who is an United Captain and he doesn't want to go back to Germany because overthere they still look at him as a low social class person(parents working class people).
In few words here USA we can self-made, but in Europe your birthplace fingerprint can stick for a while.
The reason I am suggesting Eastern Europe is that for now they are more open to outside exoticism and being an American is very cool. Plus overthere is more opportunities because the societies are in full transformation, more corruption also.
Aviation at a Line level impossible(generation to generation transmitted - family business). But at small level (instructing, agricultural, etc )could be possible and the reason is exotic.
Middle East is overpopulated by foreign workers. Africa by missionaries - scary place, South America only if you are part of some drug cartel or you have ministerial connections, Australia can not provide jobs to their own pilots, the Poles kind of cold.
Regarding our knowledge about the rest of the world...... kind of scary thoughts?! I have been fortunate to travel all over the world through my job so that way I got wonderful memories about wonderful places and people. On the same token I am looking to my child(goes to College this fall), finished High School and all the knowledge revolves around the Mall, Hollywood movies, and pets. When food is wasted and try to tell him children around the world are starving he gives me strange not understandable looks. It's sad but pets eat, are taken care of, live better than many people from around the world. If a homeless dies under the bridge nobody gives a damn, but if a dog is lost the whole community gets involved. Something is weird with this picture. And this is just one picture.
Good luck to you, Your_Dreamguy. If aviation is sick in USA outside is buried already - keep that in mind.
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Plane truth
Could you be more precise with your sources quoting the shcool program in France ?
My mother, an histrory teacher was never made aware of such change. This would be noticeable since WW2 in french history program account for a quarter of it ... Same for Indochina & WW2
Looking briefly at the official program, I can't see it explained in a "politically correct" way.
Collaboration is largely mentionned (how couldn't it be ? ) Jew deportation by the french government is not hidden.
I don't think you have a clue how aware we are about the french / France attitude during this period, so please
avoid being ridiculous mentionning subjects you are not informed of.
Speaking about "politically correct", I have heard that the FBI/CIA report about the 11th of Sept "forgot" the
Saudi Arabia involvment in those terrible events ... Naaaah ! Can't be true .
Countbat
Sorry not to agree with you, but the heavenly picture you depict about aviation in Eastern Europe is pathetic.
I suggest you try to gather informatiion about immigration regulations in those countries. Most of them won't let you get the citizenship or a job opportunity. Slovakia will hire national only, and the salaries are just enough to live there (1000 USD /months for a TR Capt 737 )
About your idea of "being american is just cool" I think you are way beyond the real picture.
Think of it, they will probably welcome any foreign investor on their land, but they will kick out job seeker , for the simple reason unemployment is massive over there.
And since most of those countries are willing to be part of EU, they tend to be more open to France (for example) thant USA (OK, don't mention the poles not buying the Typhoon
)
Oh BTW, my main job is to fly European investors in Eastern countries .
I read an interesting article recently that mentioned the French school systems don't even cover WWII because it is "politically unfavorable" to do so.
Could you be more precise with your sources quoting the shcool program in France ?
My mother, an histrory teacher was never made aware of such change. This would be noticeable since WW2 in french history program account for a quarter of it ... Same for Indochina & WW2
Looking briefly at the official program, I can't see it explained in a "politically correct" way.
Collaboration is largely mentionned (how couldn't it be ? ) Jew deportation by the french government is not hidden.
I don't think you have a clue how aware we are about the french / France attitude during this period, so please
avoid being ridiculous mentionning subjects you are not informed of.
Speaking about "politically correct", I have heard that the FBI/CIA report about the 11th of Sept "forgot" the
Saudi Arabia involvment in those terrible events ... Naaaah ! Can't be true .
Countbat
Sorry not to agree with you, but the heavenly picture you depict about aviation in Eastern Europe is pathetic.
I suggest you try to gather informatiion about immigration regulations in those countries. Most of them won't let you get the citizenship or a job opportunity. Slovakia will hire national only, and the salaries are just enough to live there (1000 USD /months for a TR Capt 737 )
About your idea of "being american is just cool" I think you are way beyond the real picture.
Think of it, they will probably welcome any foreign investor on their land, but they will kick out job seeker , for the simple reason unemployment is massive over there.
And since most of those countries are willing to be part of EU, they tend to be more open to France (for example) thant USA (OK, don't mention the poles not buying the Typhoon
)Oh BTW, my main job is to fly European investors in Eastern countries .
Last edited by PorcoRosso; 28th Jul 2003 at 19:57.
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Porco,
Sorry. The article dealt with political correctness and it's spread to Europe (as well as the financial motivations of president Chirac to stonewall any military action in Iraq, contracts and support of Hussein etc). If your mother teaches in Normandy, that might explain her dedication to passing on to the newest generation the real history of the world, warts and all. The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface the gravesites.
I salute her dedication. Let's hope the kids in the rest of France get the same opportunity.
PT
Sorry. The article dealt with political correctness and it's spread to Europe (as well as the financial motivations of president Chirac to stonewall any military action in Iraq, contracts and support of Hussein etc). If your mother teaches in Normandy, that might explain her dedication to passing on to the newest generation the real history of the world, warts and all. The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface the gravesites.
I salute her dedication. Let's hope the kids in the rest of France get the same opportunity.
PT
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Mon cher Porco Rosso,
I tried to answer to the original thread and not to divagate about which is what.
Eastern Europe's situation is well known. Miserable salaries and etc, but it was just an answer to a question. I underlined that they might be more open to americans that's all. Americans being cools to them(eastern europeans) not to french people.
I appreciate France, it is a great nation, great culture, great history and IT HAD ITS TIME IN THE WORLD and maybe someday will have again. European Comunity could become the next superpower, that's very posible, no doubts about.
Don't blame America for being the world only superpower. During history many countries were superpowers. Let me mention just a few: Mesopotania, Siria, Egipt, Greece, Roman Empire, Parthian Empire, Eastern Hordes(too many to mention: huns, avars), Spain, France, England, Germany, Russia and now USA.
Looking through the history (which you should know well) every single country abused its status as power by concquering, enslaving, robing other countries. That includes your beautiful country also. You guys were not such saints when you had the yoke in your hands.
And now is America's time and that might make some countries/people envious...........Tough luck.
Think about.... Only 15 years ago what would have happened if USSR..........I don't want to think about and neither you. Do you believe their "democracy" would have been better?
What about 60 years ago?........How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle, and what about your beautiful language to have been German? Why did Americans got involved in your Indochina?.....I don't want to answer to that one either.
Americans are just good to be used and abused?
But you did help us during our Revolution. I will give you that.
So bottom line we might have screwed some things from time to time. Nobody is perfect, and what are friends for?......to help....right..........because we always came to your help when you were in need. Right now we have a general feeling all that help in need has been only one way. I don't want to talk about back stabbing and staff.
We may be ignorant, stupids, arrogants. We can not point on the map where Washington DC is, but we don't need to know that because we know somebody is paid to know that. And that's enough. But we are generous also and with all due respect I have a feeling that your country used that quality of ours many times.
We might not have the best system( it could be improved), but it's been working for the last 2 hundred years and we like it. In the same period of time you guys changed 5 republics so far.
Adieu mon ami et vive la France.
I tried to answer to the original thread and not to divagate about which is what.
Eastern Europe's situation is well known. Miserable salaries and etc, but it was just an answer to a question. I underlined that they might be more open to americans that's all. Americans being cools to them(eastern europeans) not to french people.
I appreciate France, it is a great nation, great culture, great history and IT HAD ITS TIME IN THE WORLD and maybe someday will have again. European Comunity could become the next superpower, that's very posible, no doubts about.
Don't blame America for being the world only superpower. During history many countries were superpowers. Let me mention just a few: Mesopotania, Siria, Egipt, Greece, Roman Empire, Parthian Empire, Eastern Hordes(too many to mention: huns, avars), Spain, France, England, Germany, Russia and now USA.
Looking through the history (which you should know well) every single country abused its status as power by concquering, enslaving, robing other countries. That includes your beautiful country also. You guys were not such saints when you had the yoke in your hands.
And now is America's time and that might make some countries/people envious...........Tough luck.
Think about.... Only 15 years ago what would have happened if USSR..........I don't want to think about and neither you. Do you believe their "democracy" would have been better?
What about 60 years ago?........How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle, and what about your beautiful language to have been German? Why did Americans got involved in your Indochina?.....I don't want to answer to that one either.
Americans are just good to be used and abused?
But you did help us during our Revolution. I will give you that.
So bottom line we might have screwed some things from time to time. Nobody is perfect, and what are friends for?......to help....right..........because we always came to your help when you were in need. Right now we have a general feeling all that help in need has been only one way. I don't want to talk about back stabbing and staff.
We may be ignorant, stupids, arrogants. We can not point on the map where Washington DC is, but we don't need to know that because we know somebody is paid to know that. And that's enough. But we are generous also and with all due respect I have a feeling that your country used that quality of ours many times.
We might not have the best system( it could be improved), but it's been working for the last 2 hundred years and we like it. In the same period of time you guys changed 5 republics so far.
Adieu mon ami et vive la France.
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Bonjour Guys
Planetruth
Just one thing
It's not because my mother is living & working in Normandy that she is more involved
than others in teaching WW2 history, it's part of the program... and it's a huge part of
it. There is a misconception that french are hiding to themselves the atrocities committed
by their parents in WW2. It's totally untrue. as I mentionned previously, we know about collaborators
, we know about french facist group or pro-petain special police. A lot of TV drama or movies are dealing
with that. We are taught in school that only a few percent ( 2 I think ) of the population was involved
in the resistance. Paradoxically I can't remember my history teacher mentionning the true Heroes
, those who volunteered to England with De Gaulle, Those who joined the Russian Air Force (squadron Normandie-Niémen)
and so on ...
"The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface
the gravesites."
Well, they were probably 2 or 3 uneducated bastards, and I can tell you that all french were shocked by
those events, which happened BTW in a Commonwealth cemetary; as far as I know, the US gravesbv were not vandalised.
Countbat
"How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle"
Probably not very well, I reckon, but that was a real risk since the US government never recognised De Gaulle as the
French leader .... preferring Vichy and Petain nearly until the end of the war (there was a vichyst embassy office in washington)
If de Gaulle had not been there; certainly Petain would have, and with a US approval.
As far i am concerned, nothing wrong with USA being the superpower today, just a bit sad George Bush is in charge
But I am not voting over there, right ?
I am not a member of the "we should rule the world" brigade, So I won't try to
vainly demonstrate that we, french, european are better than others to do that.
As far as Mr Chirac's true motivation in Iraq are concerned, I know that there is a huge business and financial
apsect involved, but don't tell me Bush and Rumsfeld don't have any, or I will have a deep laugh
To come back on the subject, I can't see why you are blaming dreamguy for wanting to fly abroad, it's not considered
a defection, here, to try other places. If dreamguy is a US national, it takes some bravery to consider leaving his roots
family and friends.
Nothing wrong with that.
Planetruth
Just one thing
It's not because my mother is living & working in Normandy that she is more involved
than others in teaching WW2 history, it's part of the program... and it's a huge part of
it. There is a misconception that french are hiding to themselves the atrocities committed
by their parents in WW2. It's totally untrue. as I mentionned previously, we know about collaborators
, we know about french facist group or pro-petain special police. A lot of TV drama or movies are dealing
with that. We are taught in school that only a few percent ( 2 I think ) of the population was involved
in the resistance. Paradoxically I can't remember my history teacher mentionning the true Heroes
, those who volunteered to England with De Gaulle, Those who joined the Russian Air Force (squadron Normandie-Niémen)
and so on ...
"The people of that portion of France are not like those who come to the vast American Cemetaries and deface
the gravesites."
Well, they were probably 2 or 3 uneducated bastards, and I can tell you that all french were shocked by
those events, which happened BTW in a Commonwealth cemetary; as far as I know, the US gravesbv were not vandalised.
Countbat
"How France would have been now if your celebrated national hero would be Petain and not Charles de Gaulle"
Probably not very well, I reckon, but that was a real risk since the US government never recognised De Gaulle as the
French leader .... preferring Vichy and Petain nearly until the end of the war (there was a vichyst embassy office in washington)
If de Gaulle had not been there; certainly Petain would have, and with a US approval.
As far i am concerned, nothing wrong with USA being the superpower today, just a bit sad George Bush is in charge
But I am not voting over there, right ?
I am not a member of the "we should rule the world" brigade, So I won't try to
vainly demonstrate that we, french, european are better than others to do that.
As far as Mr Chirac's true motivation in Iraq are concerned, I know that there is a huge business and financial
apsect involved, but don't tell me Bush and Rumsfeld don't have any, or I will have a deep laugh
To come back on the subject, I can't see why you are blaming dreamguy for wanting to fly abroad, it's not considered
a defection, here, to try other places. If dreamguy is a US national, it takes some bravery to consider leaving his roots
family and friends.
Nothing wrong with that.
PPRuNe Co-Pilot
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It's his choice, i dont see the problem. Like me one day i would love to fly in Australia, like there is Australians flying here in the Uk, anything wrong with that?
PAN, PAN, PAN
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US spending on education could be read by clicking here.
I am getting little tired of hearing how US kids learn geography by the latest US wars.
You can click here and read about the winners.
Grass is never greener on the other side but at least in US,we seem to make,learn,admit and try to correct our mistakes.
I am getting little tired of hearing how US kids learn geography by the latest US wars.
You can click here and read about the winners.
Grass is never greener on the other side but at least in US,we seem to make,learn,admit and try to correct our mistakes.
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Hmm...
A sponsored geography competition is no more representative of average knowledge across a broad cross-section of population than the Olympics is representative of average fitness; The U.S. always does well but that doesn't mean it's a nation of atheletes.
A sponsored geography competition is no more representative of average knowledge across a broad cross-section of population than the Olympics is representative of average fitness; The U.S. always does well but that doesn't mean it's a nation of atheletes.
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PorcoRosso:
You did not vote for George W, but come to think of it most Americans didn't either. Not even the ones who bothered to vote.
Pretty sad, the turnout looked like a European election. Shame we can't get turnout like the old Soviet elections (98% plus) except in some parts of Chicago and New Orleans where even the dead "vote early and often".
Please don't think that the No Child Left Behind stuff is indicative of what is spent on education in USA. Most money for education is local and state funded, not federal. And that particular act is a mostly an authorization, without nearly enough federal money actually appropriated. Most visable result is forests of trees felled for paper and plans and consultants and some "little red schoolhouse" doors on the U.S. Dept. Of Ed. HQ in Washington.
Therehas been lots of practical advise for DreamGuy in between these digressive posts. I understand Alaska is like flying in other parts of the world but you don't need a passport. Alaska is where 3/4 of the people fly aircraft and half of them have licenses and it is a state law that an aircraft must carry a rifle and ammunition. Is this a great country or what?
You did not vote for George W, but come to think of it most Americans didn't either. Not even the ones who bothered to vote.
Pretty sad, the turnout looked like a European election. Shame we can't get turnout like the old Soviet elections (98% plus) except in some parts of Chicago and New Orleans where even the dead "vote early and often".
Please don't think that the No Child Left Behind stuff is indicative of what is spent on education in USA. Most money for education is local and state funded, not federal. And that particular act is a mostly an authorization, without nearly enough federal money actually appropriated. Most visable result is forests of trees felled for paper and plans and consultants and some "little red schoolhouse" doors on the U.S. Dept. Of Ed. HQ in Washington.
Therehas been lots of practical advise for DreamGuy in between these digressive posts. I understand Alaska is like flying in other parts of the world but you don't need a passport. Alaska is where 3/4 of the people fly aircraft and half of them have licenses and it is a state law that an aircraft must carry a rifle and ammunition. Is this a great country or what?
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Yeah, it would seem that it is a repeat of the election where Kennedy (Dems) stole the election from Nixon (Reps), only the parties were reversed this time. That being stated, do you think Gore would be handling things better?
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You are so right, Mr. Gore, served honorably as a press weenie, and being the son of a prominent Congressman, had 24/7 bodyguard protection to ensure that no bad ppl might try harm against him. And, he did invent the internet.
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Well, Al junior may have served honorably as a "press weenie" and his dad was both a Congressman (7 terms) and a senator (3 terms) from Tenessee but you must admit he was 10,000 or so miles closer to the bad guys than George W ever got, if that counts, becaue they are all G*& d&*%$ politicians.
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I suppose it is a matter of opinion. I seem to remember that the commie threat was taken quite seriously during those year. Air Guard units, including TX units intercepted quite a few Bears along the east coast. That being said,I have to respect a former fighter Jock more than a Journalist anyday. FYI, Al Junior declined a 04 run for the presidency. If he is so sure he had it in the bag, Why????