Southwest Airlines
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Avon, CT, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southwest Airlines
I heard on the news that SW flight attendants are complaining that they are the lowest paid FA in the US industry. I guess it goes along with their peanut philosophy, peanuts for the PAXs and peanuts for the workers.
I even bought Herb Kelleher's book "NUTS!" several years back. I always suspected that the company maintained its profitability on the backs of their employees. I always suspect a company is dysfunctional when management says everybody loves to work here and rah! rah! rah!!!
Antics are actually encouraged but even SW has its limits as in the case of two pilots with their cloths off in the cockpit. Another recent case was when a gust of wind blew the 737 off the runway upon landing, to me this sounds inexcusable.
Maybe it’s time for SW to get back to the basics and quit the nonsense.
I even bought Herb Kelleher's book "NUTS!" several years back. I always suspected that the company maintained its profitability on the backs of their employees. I always suspect a company is dysfunctional when management says everybody loves to work here and rah! rah! rah!!!
Antics are actually encouraged but even SW has its limits as in the case of two pilots with their cloths off in the cockpit. Another recent case was when a gust of wind blew the 737 off the runway upon landing, to me this sounds inexcusable.
Maybe it’s time for SW to get back to the basics and quit the nonsense.
Have toolbox, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: KMCO
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have any complaints.
I've been with them for close to 2 years now and they treat us MX guys ok. We still have the few odd problems. But all in all, mgmt supports us in most causes.
As far as the F/A's go. They should address their complaints come contract time. Not sure when its up for renewal.
But let me add, I am sympathetic to their cause.. And I DO think that they are underpaid.
Not many companies I have worked at that have held cookouts and had partys for employees just for saying thanks. Some gestures like that go a LONG way.
In short, I'm happy as hell to be here.. My old outfit folded up less than 3 months after I departed. I was very fortunate and I won't forget it.
I've been with them for close to 2 years now and they treat us MX guys ok. We still have the few odd problems. But all in all, mgmt supports us in most causes.
As far as the F/A's go. They should address their complaints come contract time. Not sure when its up for renewal.
But let me add, I am sympathetic to their cause.. And I DO think that they are underpaid.
Not many companies I have worked at that have held cookouts and had partys for employees just for saying thanks. Some gestures like that go a LONG way.
In short, I'm happy as hell to be here.. My old outfit folded up less than 3 months after I departed. I was very fortunate and I won't forget it.
I'matightbastard
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first thing they said after 9/11 was "Were not going to lay anyone off" and they didn't.
They're also making money which they pass back around though profit sharing.
As for
SWA never did do "the basics" and therfore can't get back to them..unless you consider treating the customers and employees like they're actually important and creating a unique working and travelling atmosphere that's the envy of the civilised world.
That being said, it does exist in the real world and not everything is perfect. Still, I'd rather be at SWA that at Eastern or Pan Am or even AA. If only they'd accept my resume.
That being said, they are growing in leaps and bounds and each little spurt of growth makes them a little more like American and a little less like SWA. That's what they need to watch out for.
I'm a little confused though. Are you calling the AMA incident "an antic"?
They're also making money which they pass back around though profit sharing.
As for
Maybe it’s time for SW to get back to the basics and quit the nonsense.
That being said, it does exist in the real world and not everything is perfect. Still, I'd rather be at SWA that at Eastern or Pan Am or even AA. If only they'd accept my resume.
That being said, they are growing in leaps and bounds and each little spurt of growth makes them a little more like American and a little less like SWA. That's what they need to watch out for.
I'm a little confused though. Are you calling the AMA incident "an antic"?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Avon, CT, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from Onan:
I'm a little confused though. Are you calling the AMA incident "an antic"?
End Quote
Pardon my incorrect paragraph structure, I do not think the AMA occurrence was an antic, I should have placed it in a separate paragraph. The FAA on their website is calling it an accident.
I’m starting to get concerned about SWA, in the AMA accident the news services said it got blown off the runway, it appears from the METAR report there was a thunderstorm with heavy rain possibly in progress at the time. The FAA says the nose wheel collapsed.
A previous accident:
26 JUN 2002 The NTSB determined that the probable cause of a Southwest Airlines B737 accident (on March 5, 2000) was the flight crew's excessive airspeed and flight path angle during the approach and landing at Burbank. The Board also attributed the cause of the accident to the crew's failure to abort the approach when stabilized approach criteria were not met.
Two landing accident within a year, is there a pattern developing?
As for not laying off people, if you pay people on the low side and accumulate the surplus then in hard times you have some cushion and management looks good.
In my opinion I do not think SWA presents a professional image to customers. From their orange hot pants to miniskirts and polo shirts. They have an in your face approach that they think is funny, flight attendants popping out of overhead bins, the captain making jokes that the head flight attendant is his ex-wife. I think flying is serious business and since 9/11 the bar has been raised farther. What’s next, now that crews can carry guns a SW pilot will probably announce on the PA he’s armed and if there’s any hijackers out there they can make his day.
I'm a little confused though. Are you calling the AMA incident "an antic"?
End Quote
Pardon my incorrect paragraph structure, I do not think the AMA occurrence was an antic, I should have placed it in a separate paragraph. The FAA on their website is calling it an accident.
I’m starting to get concerned about SWA, in the AMA accident the news services said it got blown off the runway, it appears from the METAR report there was a thunderstorm with heavy rain possibly in progress at the time. The FAA says the nose wheel collapsed.
A previous accident:
26 JUN 2002 The NTSB determined that the probable cause of a Southwest Airlines B737 accident (on March 5, 2000) was the flight crew's excessive airspeed and flight path angle during the approach and landing at Burbank. The Board also attributed the cause of the accident to the crew's failure to abort the approach when stabilized approach criteria were not met.
Two landing accident within a year, is there a pattern developing?
As for not laying off people, if you pay people on the low side and accumulate the surplus then in hard times you have some cushion and management looks good.
In my opinion I do not think SWA presents a professional image to customers. From their orange hot pants to miniskirts and polo shirts. They have an in your face approach that they think is funny, flight attendants popping out of overhead bins, the captain making jokes that the head flight attendant is his ex-wife. I think flying is serious business and since 9/11 the bar has been raised farther. What’s next, now that crews can carry guns a SW pilot will probably announce on the PA he’s armed and if there’s any hijackers out there they can make his day.
I'matightbastard
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whoa there big fella.
Not that two incidents are anything to be proud of - or to make light of - but to be fair 6/26/02 was the FACT date (NTSB has it as 5/6/03), as you point out 3/5/00 was the date of the Burbank event.
The AMA incident was just the other day which would put more than three years between the two events, not two within a year as you suggest.
Is this acceptable? I think SWA would say no, but in balance their safety record is still extremely high.
As for the levels of pay: If it is lower than the industry average (and I for one do not know whether this is the case or not) then people who were unsatisfied with their pay have the option to leave or negotiate a better deal for themselves. As people are not leaving in droves, then there must be something else that keeps them there. That might might well be special atmosphere that other companies try to emulate.
One place where SWA is terrifically underpaid - in relation to industry standards - is at the top. Herb pulled in about $350,000 a year I believe. Compare that to his counterparts in the industry. He also got a heavy stock option compensation, but again compare those extras to what the other airline CEOs gave themselves.
One thing you'll never see at SWA though is for everyone to negotiate pay cuts and layoffs across the board only to discover the secret retirement bonuses paid to senior execs and kept safely off the negotiation table.
SWA built a solid airline on its maverick image. It worked for a lot of people, but it obviously didn't work for you. I'm sure they would say that's a shame, but you can't win 'em all, and they seem to have won enough of 'em.
Please please please don't make a joke about an armed pilot saying something like that. It's just not funny and not a scenario that's going to happen. I'm sure you didn't think before you made that remark or you would have refrained.
By the way, It's not just the management saying "Everyone loves to work here" that's a sentiment that seems to be echoed by a lot of the workers too. Sure there are problems too, but that's because the airline exists in the real world. As I said before, what they need to watch for is growing just for the sake of growing and losing the very things that made them special.
Perhaps it's not the airline for you and that's fine, but I'm sure if you did take a trip on them you'd be welcomed with open arms.
Not that two incidents are anything to be proud of - or to make light of - but to be fair 6/26/02 was the FACT date (NTSB has it as 5/6/03), as you point out 3/5/00 was the date of the Burbank event.
The AMA incident was just the other day which would put more than three years between the two events, not two within a year as you suggest.
Is this acceptable? I think SWA would say no, but in balance their safety record is still extremely high.
As for the levels of pay: If it is lower than the industry average (and I for one do not know whether this is the case or not) then people who were unsatisfied with their pay have the option to leave or negotiate a better deal for themselves. As people are not leaving in droves, then there must be something else that keeps them there. That might might well be special atmosphere that other companies try to emulate.
One place where SWA is terrifically underpaid - in relation to industry standards - is at the top. Herb pulled in about $350,000 a year I believe. Compare that to his counterparts in the industry. He also got a heavy stock option compensation, but again compare those extras to what the other airline CEOs gave themselves.
One thing you'll never see at SWA though is for everyone to negotiate pay cuts and layoffs across the board only to discover the secret retirement bonuses paid to senior execs and kept safely off the negotiation table.
SWA built a solid airline on its maverick image. It worked for a lot of people, but it obviously didn't work for you. I'm sure they would say that's a shame, but you can't win 'em all, and they seem to have won enough of 'em.
Please please please don't make a joke about an armed pilot saying something like that. It's just not funny and not a scenario that's going to happen. I'm sure you didn't think before you made that remark or you would have refrained.
By the way, It's not just the management saying "Everyone loves to work here" that's a sentiment that seems to be echoed by a lot of the workers too. Sure there are problems too, but that's because the airline exists in the real world. As I said before, what they need to watch for is growing just for the sake of growing and losing the very things that made them special.
Perhaps it's not the airline for you and that's fine, but I'm sure if you did take a trip on them you'd be welcomed with open arms.
Have toolbox, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: KMCO
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mialo,
I know that several of the guys based here at MCO live in South Florida. But as far as basing, I'm pretty sure MCO is the only pilot base in this state.
Most new hires are sent to the undesirable base and I'm sure that is OAK. All my buddys who were hired we're sent to OAK to do their time before they could bid out.
From what they tell me, they treat the new hire pilots pretty well.
Maybe I went in to the wrong side of the operation!
I know that several of the guys based here at MCO live in South Florida. But as far as basing, I'm pretty sure MCO is the only pilot base in this state.
Most new hires are sent to the undesirable base and I'm sure that is OAK. All my buddys who were hired we're sent to OAK to do their time before they could bid out.
From what they tell me, they treat the new hire pilots pretty well.
Maybe I went in to the wrong side of the operation!
Have toolbox, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: KMCO
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xyz_pilot,
I agree! The Bay Area is a nice place..
But Its very expensive to live there. The OAK side isn't that great from all I have heard. I never spent time on that side of the Bay. I worked at SFO during my short 3 months in the area.
I've talked to a few of our mechanics who have worked in OAK in the past and they suggested that you should issued machine guns when moving into the area.
I agree! The Bay Area is a nice place..
But Its very expensive to live there. The OAK side isn't that great from all I have heard. I never spent time on that side of the Bay. I worked at SFO during my short 3 months in the area.
I've talked to a few of our mechanics who have worked in OAK in the past and they suggested that you should issued machine guns when moving into the area.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Continuous Ignition
Thanks.
I see quite a lot of Southwest at Ft.lauderdale Intl. and was wondering if...... What are the roster patterns like at Orlando?
4 to 5 days trips or less/
Appreciate any info. thanks.
Mialo
I see quite a lot of Southwest at Ft.lauderdale Intl. and was wondering if...... What are the roster patterns like at Orlando?
4 to 5 days trips or less/
Appreciate any info. thanks.
Mialo
Have toolbox, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: KMCO
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mialo,
Now just so you know, I work in MX. So any info I give you could be a little off.
From my understanding... Southwest trys to get you home most nights.. But I don't think the longer trips are more than 4-5 days.
I'm off on medical leave right now.. So I can't ask the crews I would normally meet each night.
As for my buddies who are pilots here, its hard to run them down to get any info in a timely manner.
May I suggest checking out the forums at www.usaviation.com and going to the Southwest Airlines area. There seems to be a lot of crew members there..
Now just so you know, I work in MX. So any info I give you could be a little off.
From my understanding... Southwest trys to get you home most nights.. But I don't think the longer trips are more than 4-5 days.
I'm off on medical leave right now.. So I can't ask the crews I would normally meet each night.
As for my buddies who are pilots here, its hard to run them down to get any info in a timely manner.
May I suggest checking out the forums at www.usaviation.com and going to the Southwest Airlines area. There seems to be a lot of crew members there..
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bothell WA
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 to 5 days trips or less
I am based in OAK. Live in Seattle. OAK is the most junior FO base and BWI is the most junior Captain base right now.
The bay area is expensive and California does have a high state income tax.
Have toolbox, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: KMCO
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TR4A,
Thanks for the info.... I didn't think any trips were longer than 4 or 5 days..
By the way, do you know an FO out there named John Allen? He has been with the company about 2 years. If so, tell him Big Mike from MCO says hi! He was on the DC-10 when I was doin the flight mech gig at our old airline.
Thanks for the info.... I didn't think any trips were longer than 4 or 5 days..
By the way, do you know an FO out there named John Allen? He has been with the company about 2 years. If so, tell him Big Mike from MCO says hi! He was on the DC-10 when I was doin the flight mech gig at our old airline.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bothell WA
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way, do you know an FO out there named John Allen? He has been with the company about 2 years. If so, tell him Big Mike from MCO says hi! He was on the DC-10 when I was doin the flight mech gig at our old airline.
