Ryanair Taxi Tactics
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there are guidance taxi speed limits which the Ryanair pilots are limited to both for safety and tyre wear. If any one else would like to indicate if their company rules indicate any guidance speeds for taxi, or is it up to each pilot to decide for themselves.
I'm not going to say what our are first because I am interested to see if any other company has guidance speeds for taxi in the apron, taxiways, and on turns.
Thanks for any replies to this !
I'm not going to say what our are first because I am interested to see if any other company has guidance speeds for taxi in the apron, taxiways, and on turns.
Thanks for any replies to this !
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doggygog
I agree with your basic assertion re "give way to..." phraseology, quite why there is a discussion about it is quite frankly scary.
However it is your attitude I disagree with. I'm not going to list your (or anyone elses) grammatical errors, we live and work in a multi-national environment, and whether our colleagues/customers are native English speakers or not makes no difference, so why take the attention away from what is an important safety matter with your peurile rantings? You are doing the already shaky relations between pilots and controllers no favours.
Hooligan Bill
How can you possibly imagine that a give way instruction with reference to a specific aircraft could mean the same as a general right-of-way give way sign at a road junction? That sort of playing with words and making instructions mean what you want them to mean can only lead to one thing, misunderstanding, which in this job is a very dangerous word indeed.
I agree with your basic assertion re "give way to..." phraseology, quite why there is a discussion about it is quite frankly scary.
However it is your attitude I disagree with. I'm not going to list your (or anyone elses) grammatical errors, we live and work in a multi-national environment, and whether our colleagues/customers are native English speakers or not makes no difference, so why take the attention away from what is an important safety matter with your peurile rantings? You are doing the already shaky relations between pilots and controllers no favours.
Hooligan Bill
How can you possibly imagine that a give way instruction with reference to a specific aircraft could mean the same as a general right-of-way give way sign at a road junction? That sort of playing with words and making instructions mean what you want them to mean can only lead to one thing, misunderstanding, which in this job is a very dangerous word indeed.
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SENSE OF HUMOUR FAILURE?
Anyone know why the moderator has removed half the posts.....?
ETOPS
Never seen a "400" that didn't have "dual control", however, never seen one with two tillers!!
Now, I expect BA probably had a few.....
ATROPOS
"Staggering"??? - surely you exaggerate! "Unusual" might be more appropriate. Staggering is when a Captain buys the beer.....
Anyone know why the moderator has removed half the posts.....?
ETOPS
Never seen a "400" that didn't have "dual control", however, never seen one with two tillers!!
Now, I expect BA probably had a few.....
ATROPOS
"Staggering"??? - surely you exaggerate! "Unusual" might be more appropriate. Staggering is when a Captain buys the beer.....
Last edited by Wing Commander Fowler; 9th Mar 2003 at 00:48.
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Watching the eropean aviation scene now from a distance, I am sometimes a bit surprised how emotional some individuals are when the talk is about Ryanair. And even more amusing is, how often it is clearly noticable, that the contributers to those heated discussions never had hands on the control wheel bigger than a C-172.
Especially Doggydogtrained sounds a bit frustrated... Didn't get the job?
So a pilot did a mistake during taxi. Oh my god, a disaster, a near mishap... You should come around and have a look in other parts of the world. I have heard pilots requesting for taxi, while their aircraft was still being pushed back, just to get a clearance ahead of another aircraft, which was ready to go with the engines running...
.... didn't work, though... 
And when you think Ryanair or Lufthansa is taxiing fast, I tell you, you should have seen our FOM taxiing...
Especially Doggydogtrained sounds a bit frustrated... Didn't get the job?
So a pilot did a mistake during taxi. Oh my god, a disaster, a near mishap... You should come around and have a look in other parts of the world. I have heard pilots requesting for taxi, while their aircraft was still being pushed back, just to get a clearance ahead of another aircraft, which was ready to go with the engines running...
.... didn't work, though... And when you think Ryanair or Lufthansa is taxiing fast, I tell you, you should have seen our FOM taxiing...
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j17, 250 kts, doggydogtrained, fourthreethree,
I suggest you read Rule 37 Right of Way on the Ground 4 (b) which states:-
when the two flying machines are on converging courses, the one which has the other on its right shall give way to the other and shall avoid crossing ahead of the other unless passing well clear of it;
By issuing a 'Give Way' instruction you are telling the pilots which one has the right of way (as it may not be the one on the right). However, the last part of the paragraph still stands.
I suggest you read Rule 37 Right of Way on the Ground 4 (b) which states:-
when the two flying machines are on converging courses, the one which has the other on its right shall give way to the other and shall avoid crossing ahead of the other unless passing well clear of it;
By issuing a 'Give Way' instruction you are telling the pilots which one has the right of way (as it may not be the one on the right). However, the last part of the paragraph still stands.
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Might I suggest the Ryanair "management " issue the following memo:
"Jew to resent conserns expresed by profesional elements within our industry, the maximum taxi speed is to be redused from 80kts to 30kts. This speed ruffly ekwates to that of a cantering horse"
Surely that should be clear to all the cowboys at FR
" issue the following memo:"Jew to resent conserns expresed by profesional elements within our industry, the maximum taxi speed is to be redused from 80kts to 30kts. This speed ruffly ekwates to that of a cantering horse"
Surely that should be clear to all the cowboys at FR
Itīs only when we lose our sense of humor, we really loose. Great!
Mike Jenvey:
Pilot or not, ddt makes it fairly obvious on a nearby thread that he is a Buzz employee. That might explain a lot, although I would have thought that his frustration might perhaps be better aimed at KLM.
Pilot or not, ddt makes it fairly obvious on a nearby thread that he is a Buzz employee. That might explain a lot, although I would have thought that his frustration might perhaps be better aimed at KLM.
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Hooligan
Shall we just get rid of GMC and give everybody the Rules of the Air and let you get on with it.I assume you consult the Rules of the Air when you are overtaking acft whilst in the air (if you fly offcourse)to quote the Rules of the Air at any airfield with more than a grass strip and a Air/ground service is a load of twaddle
Shall we just get rid of GMC and give everybody the Rules of the Air and let you get on with it.I assume you consult the Rules of the Air when you are overtaking acft whilst in the air (if you fly offcourse)to quote the Rules of the Air at any airfield with more than a grass strip and a Air/ground service is a load of twaddle
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Was quality the other morning at DUB. Good old -200 rust bucket taxying towards the A pier at point of rotation when they handbrake turned onto the wrong stand...(No marshaller or eng so Aer Rianta would have been wetting themselves I expect...) upon realising that the welcoming committee where on the next stand along a large application of reverse followed by a split arse 180 narrowly missing a big fat ESSO truck fuelling a little shamrock 146. Looked very professional especially the CPT hanging out of the DV window maing some very interesting hand gestures to a bemused FR ground crew. Nice work boys !!
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Glad to see everyone is still bashing Ryanair.
411
glad to see you posted a reply to my question about taxi speeds.
Everyone else seems to be on a 'bad mouth Ryanair trip ', well if any of you would care to discuss your company taxi speeds then we could maybe see if there are differences between companies.
our limits, 30 on taxiways distant from the main airport, 25 on taxiways close to the apron, 15 max for turn onto apron, and 10 on the apron.
Does anyone see a problem with these speeds?
it is frustrating when you are behind someone, in the same aircraft type, taxing everywhere at 10 kts. but this is there choice i suppose !?
411
glad to see you posted a reply to my question about taxi speeds.
Everyone else seems to be on a 'bad mouth Ryanair trip ', well if any of you would care to discuss your company taxi speeds then we could maybe see if there are differences between companies.
our limits, 30 on taxiways distant from the main airport, 25 on taxiways close to the apron, 15 max for turn onto apron, and 10 on the apron.
Does anyone see a problem with these speeds?
it is frustrating when you are behind someone, in the same aircraft type, taxing everywhere at 10 kts. but this is there choice i suppose !?
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<<taxing everywhere at 10 kts. but this is there choice i suppose !?>>
Please do not confuse MAXIMUM permited with sensible / safe / prudent / comfortable down the back!
That said, being a mere Nigel I have not experienced too many Ryanair taxi alerts. I always find Lufthansa 737s often worth watching however...
Like speeding in your car, but even more so, the time saved by taxing at 30K rather than say 20K, to the holding point queue, or to the terminal to await the marshaller / steps etc. is so minimal I doubt its worth the brake / tyre / heart wear, let along the odd excursion where one did not wish to go...
NoD
Please do not confuse MAXIMUM permited with sensible / safe / prudent / comfortable down the back!
That said, being a mere Nigel I have not experienced too many Ryanair taxi alerts. I always find Lufthansa 737s often worth watching however...
Like speeding in your car, but even more so, the time saved by taxing at 30K rather than say 20K, to the holding point queue, or to the terminal to await the marshaller / steps etc. is so minimal I doubt its worth the brake / tyre / heart wear, let along the odd excursion where one did not wish to go...
NoD
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Personally I had always assumed that a Give Way instruction was an absolute instruction to wait until the other aircraft has gone first. Frankly it never even crossed my mind that this might have any discretionary element to it. Are there any ATCOs out there who would expect an aircraft to go in front if it could be done safely.
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fullyestablished
No.
An atc instruction, at least one issued by me, is absolute, and not open to individual interpretation. Give way to aircraft x means give way to aircraft x. Not give way to aircraft x, unless you think you can get in there first. I'm glad, nay relieved to see that someone out there shares my view.
This thread has also been taken up in the atc issues forum, with some interesting views banging around.
No.
An atc instruction, at least one issued by me, is absolute, and not open to individual interpretation. Give way to aircraft x means give way to aircraft x. Not give way to aircraft x, unless you think you can get in there first. I'm glad, nay relieved to see that someone out there shares my view.
This thread has also been taken up in the atc issues forum, with some interesting views banging around.
My 2-pen'th:
Give way - "allow precedence to" - Oxford Dictionary.
The Road Traffic Act does not apply on an aerodrome, therefore in the absence of a specific meaning allocated to the expression in the RTF Manual, the ordinary English meaning must be assumed. As mentioned previously, the situation is clouded by the fact that on the road, as it is a question of the driver's judgement, the interpretation becomes "give way if you consider that it is necessary".
In many situations, it is a very useful tactical phrase. CAA does not permit its use to vehicles, however, as they consider that pilots are super-intelligent and understand the instruction whereas vehicle drivers are too thick. I had some discussion with them some time ago on the subject. It wasn't exactly phrased like that, but that was the gist of it!
I do have some sympathy with the crew. The requirement is that any conditional instruction should relate to only one other movement. My interpretation is that this should be both visually and verbally, i.e. in spite of an adequate description of the conditional movement, there should be no possibility for visual confusion.
Give way - "allow precedence to" - Oxford Dictionary.
The Road Traffic Act does not apply on an aerodrome, therefore in the absence of a specific meaning allocated to the expression in the RTF Manual, the ordinary English meaning must be assumed. As mentioned previously, the situation is clouded by the fact that on the road, as it is a question of the driver's judgement, the interpretation becomes "give way if you consider that it is necessary".
In many situations, it is a very useful tactical phrase. CAA does not permit its use to vehicles, however, as they consider that pilots are super-intelligent and understand the instruction whereas vehicle drivers are too thick. I had some discussion with them some time ago on the subject. It wasn't exactly phrased like that, but that was the gist of it!
I do have some sympathy with the crew. The requirement is that any conditional instruction should relate to only one other movement. My interpretation is that this should be both visually and verbally, i.e. in spite of an adequate description of the conditional movement, there should be no possibility for visual confusion.
Last edited by 2 sheds; 12th Mar 2003 at 22:38.