Anti British Airways
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B.A
Hands up those who read A & C 's comments and felt a bit uneasy
'engineerig staff with such contempt , without doubt it is the worst atmosphere that I have ever worked in and I would have got out sooner if I had known better at the time.
BA do have a number of realy stuck up priggs mostly in flight crew but per capita no more that other airlines'
Disregarding the spelling, this just doesn't seem like the company I worked for - 30 years, man & boy. I can never remember an anti engineer culture from pilots - quite the reverse - our lives depended on good communication. Come on A & C, are you sure you're not just a bit prickly yourself.
Cheers, Y
'engineerig staff with such contempt , without doubt it is the worst atmosphere that I have ever worked in and I would have got out sooner if I had known better at the time.
BA do have a number of realy stuck up priggs mostly in flight crew but per capita no more that other airlines'
Disregarding the spelling, this just doesn't seem like the company I worked for - 30 years, man & boy. I can never remember an anti engineer culture from pilots - quite the reverse - our lives depended on good communication. Come on A & C, are you sure you're not just a bit prickly yourself.
Cheers, Y
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I will put my hands up to the spelling but the rest of it is a true reflection of my 17 or so years in BA .
In general the flight crew treat the engineerig staff well and apart from one or two individuals I have no complants with the flight crew.
The cabin crew , well that was a different story some were very nice to deal with but the overwelming attitude was poor to say the least and one was left in no dout that we were considerd to be dirt , it was so refreshing to work the Dan-air aircraft as the whole atmosphere was one of cooperation and a wish to get on with the job in a plesant enviroment.
My real beef is with the managment who treated us with utter contempt , this I think was deliberate policy to undermine the individuals confidence and self worth in an attempt to keep the highly skilled engineering staff in there place in the hangars and to stop them seeking promotion outside the engineering system.
In general the flight crew treat the engineerig staff well and apart from one or two individuals I have no complants with the flight crew.
The cabin crew , well that was a different story some were very nice to deal with but the overwelming attitude was poor to say the least and one was left in no dout that we were considerd to be dirt , it was so refreshing to work the Dan-air aircraft as the whole atmosphere was one of cooperation and a wish to get on with the job in a plesant enviroment.
My real beef is with the managment who treated us with utter contempt , this I think was deliberate policy to undermine the individuals confidence and self worth in an attempt to keep the highly skilled engineering staff in there place in the hangars and to stop them seeking promotion outside the engineering system.
Paxing All Over The World
A&C, with regards to your comment: "My real beef is with the managment who treated us with utter contempt , this I think was deliberate policy to undermine the individuals confidence and self worth in an attempt to keep the highly skilled engineering staff in there place in the hangars and to stop them seeking promotion outside the engineering system."
This is just standard behaviour of management! I have never worked in BA but I have been working in the UK and other countries for 22 years, both employed and freelance. I have been in transport, financial, government, retail and many other sectors (in telecommunications) and what you have said could be applied to almost any of the 150 + companies and organisations that I have come across.
I have just finished a contract for an American Company, at their London office. One member of staff said, of their particular British manager, "She talks to you like an old fashioned headmistress."
One of the key things about UK management is that they do not wnat you to get out of your box. Whether you are an engineer that wants to be a pilot, or a shop assistant that wants to be managing director.
So, whilst I know how frustrating and demoralising this attitude is to experience - it is not BA alone.
This is just standard behaviour of management! I have never worked in BA but I have been working in the UK and other countries for 22 years, both employed and freelance. I have been in transport, financial, government, retail and many other sectors (in telecommunications) and what you have said could be applied to almost any of the 150 + companies and organisations that I have come across.
I have just finished a contract for an American Company, at their London office. One member of staff said, of their particular British manager, "She talks to you like an old fashioned headmistress."
One of the key things about UK management is that they do not wnat you to get out of your box. Whether you are an engineer that wants to be a pilot, or a shop assistant that wants to be managing director.
So, whilst I know how frustrating and demoralising this attitude is to experience - it is not BA alone.
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PAXboy thanks for your interesting comments I must have been fortunate in the companys that I have worked for since leaving BA as I have not encountered this de-motivation of people on anything like the scale (pro rata ) that I saw it in BA.
But it is a very british attitude to put your staff down rather than try to get the best out of them , I can only think that the managemet fear for there own positions if highly motivated staff are encouraged .
But it is a very british attitude to put your staff down rather than try to get the best out of them , I can only think that the managemet fear for there own positions if highly motivated staff are encouraged .
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I must agree with A & C on this - I have worked for a few companies both inside the aviatrion industry and outside and can honestly say that the management structure at BA is the worst that I have ever come across.
The main problem seems to be that there are SO MANY of them - there are loads of managers trying to justify their position and empire build that I am constantly surprised anything gets done. This is not helped by a remuneration system that makes individual managers compete against each other for their pay rises and bonuses. If half the work that is put into shifting blame onto someone else were put into making the operation more efficient then BA could certainly sweep all before them.
My partner works for the government in the Civil Service - when we compare notes it seems that much of BA is still operating as a nationalised industry. There are many first class managers at BA who try to do a good job unfortunatley these are massively outnumbered by the hangers-on.
The main problem seems to be that there are SO MANY of them - there are loads of managers trying to justify their position and empire build that I am constantly surprised anything gets done. This is not helped by a remuneration system that makes individual managers compete against each other for their pay rises and bonuses. If half the work that is put into shifting blame onto someone else were put into making the operation more efficient then BA could certainly sweep all before them.
My partner works for the government in the Civil Service - when we compare notes it seems that much of BA is still operating as a nationalised industry. There are many first class managers at BA who try to do a good job unfortunatley these are massively outnumbered by the hangers-on.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Hello HAND SOLO, nice to see that you have the same attitude, towards guys that work irregular hours and still manage to convert foreign licences with 1st time passes and maybe bring some qualities with them. Point taken.
All I ask is for an assesment opportunity pal.
( I completed the JAR IR IN 14 hrs including the flight test, ONE GO). Do I meet you CSD REQUIREMENTS.
All I ask is for an assesment opportunity pal.
( I completed the JAR IR IN 14 hrs including the flight test, ONE GO). Do I meet you CSD REQUIREMENTS.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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mrsmaryhinge et al:
We all seem to be whingeing that a FEW captains at BA seem to sour the atmosphere at BA. I thoroughly agree in my experience that a few ( not necessarily BA) captains seem to think they own the world, and even when they are wrong they are right.
Why not name and shame them? This is a rumour network after all.
Tell us all who the to**ers are and if they are ppruners they will have the opportunity to put forward their own arguments. Having never done it myself, I am quite prepared to listen, digest and reply to anyone who is or has been the commander of an aircraft with several hundred passengers who has an opinion different to mine. Perhaps it is a personal matter of management technique as to why some people seem to be more popular than others (team players etc), but please bear in mind that some of us have management/team experience outside of aviation and don't see it all in black and white.
PS some of the NICEST people I have ever met have been airline captains, so I do know that one size does not fit all.....
We all seem to be whingeing that a FEW captains at BA seem to sour the atmosphere at BA. I thoroughly agree in my experience that a few ( not necessarily BA) captains seem to think they own the world, and even when they are wrong they are right.
Why not name and shame them? This is a rumour network after all.
Tell us all who the to**ers are and if they are ppruners they will have the opportunity to put forward their own arguments. Having never done it myself, I am quite prepared to listen, digest and reply to anyone who is or has been the commander of an aircraft with several hundred passengers who has an opinion different to mine. Perhaps it is a personal matter of management technique as to why some people seem to be more popular than others (team players etc), but please bear in mind that some of us have management/team experience outside of aviation and don't see it all in black and white.
PS some of the NICEST people I have ever met have been airline captains, so I do know that one size does not fit all.....
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All majors have several captains who think they taught birds to fly. That is also true about Air France and LH. However, it is in every pilot's interest to have BA keeping fit. Personally, seeing slave breeders as FR and EZ makes me feel interest in the job may slowly fade away. Not that money is bad there (well, hourly, it IS bad). Only, you don't have time in your life to enjoy it and you feel constantly tired. Plus, your job is at risk. No at the moment because low cost airlines are growing. But what about when they will not grow anymore, which will happen in the mid-run.
BA has set high social standards : pension, rosters, salary...and helps pilots in other airlines keeping somewhat a decent lifestyle. Take that standard away, and just witness how bad this profession will turn.
BA has set high social standards : pension, rosters, salary...and helps pilots in other airlines keeping somewhat a decent lifestyle. Take that standard away, and just witness how bad this profession will turn.
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Hand Solo,
I am a CSD and never have any problems with F/O'S or Captains
and find them professional,fun to work with and on the whole a
genuine and down to earth bunch.
So can you please quantify your statement which implies we
CSD's do not get on with F/O's.
Kind regards,
NJR.
A turkey is not for life,it's just for Chistmas!!
NJR, you should know by now that out of hand advertising on PPRuNe is not allowed. I have deleted the two URL's you placed here.
I am a CSD and never have any problems with F/O'S or Captains
and find them professional,fun to work with and on the whole a
genuine and down to earth bunch.
So can you please quantify your statement which implies we
CSD's do not get on with F/O's.
Kind regards,
NJR.
A turkey is not for life,it's just for Chistmas!!
NJR, you should know by now that out of hand advertising on PPRuNe is not allowed. I have deleted the two URL's you placed here.
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NJR,
Pretty sure I know you (are you the famed eurofleet photographer, per chance?) and as a BA FO (shouts of derision from across the land) I'd just like to say that I agree with you and that I (hope) get on with nearly everyone I fly with, be they Capts, CSDs, PSRs, maincrew, eng, despatcher etc etc. Our cabin crew carry a damned good reputation in general and rightly so. A tosser is a tosser whatever uniform they wear.
Hope you're keeping well, look forward to a nightstop with you soon.
Regards
Pretty sure I know you (are you the famed eurofleet photographer, per chance?) and as a BA FO (shouts of derision from across the land) I'd just like to say that I agree with you and that I (hope) get on with nearly everyone I fly with, be they Capts, CSDs, PSRs, maincrew, eng, despatcher etc etc. Our cabin crew carry a damned good reputation in general and rightly so. A tosser is a tosser whatever uniform they wear.
Hope you're keeping well, look forward to a nightstop with you soon.
Regards
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
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My experience of BA has been as a supplier over the past few years. In general, they treat suppliers pretty poorly in my experience and the concept of a customer/supplier partnership is as well received within their culture as licking nettles.
I have been quite successful with them and so cannot be accused of "sour grapes" but their procurement system seems based on a mixture of preconcieved ideas and "not invented here" Their other failing is a lack of understanding of the difference between price and cost.
I have been quite successful with them and so cannot be accused of "sour grapes" but their procurement system seems based on a mixture of preconcieved ideas and "not invented here" Their other failing is a lack of understanding of the difference between price and cost.
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There are a lot of very good people within BA, but also a lot of dead wood. Unfortunately, as is often the case, whenever there is a wave of cutbacks and voluntary redundancies it is often the good guys who go, leaving the dead wood to try and transform the company when in many respects they are part of the problem!
The reason so many people on the forum are anti-BA is that they have seen or experienced the way BA manage. Don't get me wrong, they are without doubt an extremely professional organisation and in general I admire their training, etc. However, they are totally inept when it comes to the micro-management of the business.
BA are too big an entity to really be able to focus on individual routes, markets, costings, etc. in the same way as younger and/or smaller outfits can do......whether this be franchise airlines with specific shorthaul markets, Low Cost carrier, etc. In many respects BA simply do not know what their costs are.
I have a lot of friends and former colleagues within BA, and I want to see a BA recovery for a) their sake and b) the sake of the industry in general.
That does not, however, prevent me from feeling very bitter towards them for the number of good companies and people they have shafted along the way, and I certainly hope they begin to respect some of the excellent talent they have, and really tackle some of the dead wood (both in terms of personnel and processes and practices) which are the root of their problem.
In trim.
The reason so many people on the forum are anti-BA is that they have seen or experienced the way BA manage. Don't get me wrong, they are without doubt an extremely professional organisation and in general I admire their training, etc. However, they are totally inept when it comes to the micro-management of the business.
BA are too big an entity to really be able to focus on individual routes, markets, costings, etc. in the same way as younger and/or smaller outfits can do......whether this be franchise airlines with specific shorthaul markets, Low Cost carrier, etc. In many respects BA simply do not know what their costs are.
I have a lot of friends and former colleagues within BA, and I want to see a BA recovery for a) their sake and b) the sake of the industry in general.
That does not, however, prevent me from feeling very bitter towards them for the number of good companies and people they have shafted along the way, and I certainly hope they begin to respect some of the excellent talent they have, and really tackle some of the dead wood (both in terms of personnel and processes and practices) which are the root of their problem.
In trim.
