security UK please read!!
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security UK please read!!
it is now a joke and i am getting really pissed!!!! everyday going through security at LHR in full uniform with crew, being treated as suspects by foreigners (no offence meant, dont know how else to bet the message accross) and then to get things like toe clippers taken off me or a pair of tweesers!!
these idiots are meant to be protecting me, i dont know why this is such a risk, here i am in full uniform about to operate the aircraft, they take my tweesers off me and i have an axe in the cockpit??
then engineers walk past (probably contracters) with stanley knives, plyers etc etc.
then doing meet and greeting at the door, to come across umbrellas, big bags and artifacts and then the best the other day, a 3 ft sumarai sword!!!! yes, tagged to be put in the hold by ground agents when boarding, got through 2 security points and then it was the honesty of the person to give it to us to put in the hold. what if they then concealed it on boarding, i dont even have my clippers anymore to defend myself!!
please, i wish the security would ease up on us a little and be more realistic, why there is 6 staff to check us (operating crew) and only 4 at the public entrance of security is beyond me.
these idiots are meant to be protecting me, i dont know why this is such a risk, here i am in full uniform about to operate the aircraft, they take my tweesers off me and i have an axe in the cockpit??
then engineers walk past (probably contracters) with stanley knives, plyers etc etc.
then doing meet and greeting at the door, to come across umbrellas, big bags and artifacts and then the best the other day, a 3 ft sumarai sword!!!! yes, tagged to be put in the hold by ground agents when boarding, got through 2 security points and then it was the honesty of the person to give it to us to put in the hold. what if they then concealed it on boarding, i dont even have my clippers anymore to defend myself!!
please, i wish the security would ease up on us a little and be more realistic, why there is 6 staff to check us (operating crew) and only 4 at the public entrance of security is beyond me.
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Enough !!!
I know man!
Enough is enough. Try basel airport. What a bunch of incompetent f***s. They half-strip us every day, take our nail-clippers for the sake of security, speak only french (on a so-called 3-country "european" airport), etc, etc , etc...
At the same time, mechanics(with sharp tools), ground staff (and cleaners(sorry again, with mostly arabian background) gain access through the back of the airport......... unchecked.
I am not saying arabs should be banned from airports, or mechanics should be prohibited from carrying sharp tools, BUT STOP HARRASSING ME ABOUT MY GO*D*MN TWEEZERS.
I am a pilot! I already know how to fly my plane (more or less) and don't need nailclippers in order to perform a horrendous act with my airplane! Leave me alone!
Enough is enough. Try basel airport. What a bunch of incompetent f***s. They half-strip us every day, take our nail-clippers for the sake of security, speak only french (on a so-called 3-country "european" airport), etc, etc , etc...
At the same time, mechanics(with sharp tools), ground staff (and cleaners(sorry again, with mostly arabian background) gain access through the back of the airport......... unchecked.
I am not saying arabs should be banned from airports, or mechanics should be prohibited from carrying sharp tools, BUT STOP HARRASSING ME ABOUT MY GO*D*MN TWEEZERS.
I am a pilot! I already know how to fly my plane (more or less) and don't need nailclippers in order to perform a horrendous act with my airplane! Leave me alone!
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One simple point to make, there is no point in confiscating any sharp objects from passengers while glass bottles are sold in duty free.
Ask any casualty Doctor or Nurse if a broken bottle can be used as an offensive weapon.
I forgot BAA regulates security, BAA makes a massive profit from duty free. The alcohol and perfume suppliers will have said they can only redistribute their product in plastic if they increase the price at which they sell it to BAA, thus reducing the profit margin.
Nothing, but nothing, must get in the way of profit.
Ask any casualty Doctor or Nurse if a broken bottle can be used as an offensive weapon.
I forgot BAA regulates security, BAA makes a massive profit from duty free. The alcohol and perfume suppliers will have said they can only redistribute their product in plastic if they increase the price at which they sell it to BAA, thus reducing the profit margin.
Nothing, but nothing, must get in the way of profit.
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Groan. Sympathies here. Perhaps they think you might manicure someone to death? 
Completely daft as long as drinks onboard are served in glasses! Or I can carry on my 5" long stainless steel pen. Etc etc.
With so many potentially lethal objects around, can anyone explain the rationale behind banning nail clippers and tweezers?
CS
Completely daft as long as drinks onboard are served in glasses! Or I can carry on my 5" long stainless steel pen. Etc etc.
With so many potentially lethal objects around, can anyone explain the rationale behind banning nail clippers and tweezers?
CS
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items such as tweezers etc are normally in your overnight bag for when you get down route!! Singapore still has razor blades in the toilets for passengers on incoming flights to the UK, seems to be rules for one.....
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I did write this in reply to the Swiss security thread but it holds even more valid here:
I don't think it ever hurts to bring to "the system's" attention any matter which you, as a sensible, precautionary, adult considers a potential security risk. It is then for "the system" to take this info, consider it appropriately and act or not act. We have to accept that "the system" (be it of an airline, a City/Wall Street bank, an airport, a high-rise building in a capital city, nuclear power-plant, toxic waste disposal unit, pharmaceutical company) has the knowledge and expertise to assess risk in its environment and the willingness to take positive action to minimise/eliminate harm to the general public.
The problem highlighted by the rash and in some cases ludicrous reactions to 9/11 at airports and with airlines is that the majority of the travelling public and flight/cabin crew do not see the majority of new measures as enhancing or in any way improving security on board.
Before anyone works at an airport/airline they should be stringently scrutinised by the host country's security/police service and given a clearance which should include fingerprinting. Security cards, with photos no older than 6m and fingerprints, then issued. Random comparison of the prints on the cards and the person carrying the card to be undertaken at all airports/airlines by an external agency. A mismatch means immediate arrest for the carrier of the card and the person to whom it was issued and their suspension for all time from work with any airport/airline.
For the travelling public, in the UK at least there seemed to be little problem with the one small bag (preferably see-through) to carry on - in fact in various queues I found myself in people were almost vying to have the most effective bag for security folks to check! Dutyfree alcohol and other glassware purchases are the next problem - in the right hands the smallest item (or no item at all) can be deadly. So why not a specific lockable overhead bin for duty-free only? pax to be relieved of purchases while waiting in lounge? then the chance of a drunk angry person waving their own giant bottle around is lessened...
Nothing will prevent a determined criminal/terrorist from attempting to pursue their aims, but like all good crime prevention, all measures introduced should be to make it so tedious that airports and airlines and other likely targets are just too difficult. Downside? non key targets might be selected but when the aim of the current situation appears to be global terror this is less likely.
As with everything, there is one truth. Security measures that should be in place may not be in all sorts of industries and it is vital that the whistle-blower in those industries has a means by which his/her genuine concerns can be raised to appropriate authorities - often the larger the organisation the less possible it is for someone down the "food chain" to air concerns!
JMHO
I don't think it ever hurts to bring to "the system's" attention any matter which you, as a sensible, precautionary, adult considers a potential security risk. It is then for "the system" to take this info, consider it appropriately and act or not act. We have to accept that "the system" (be it of an airline, a City/Wall Street bank, an airport, a high-rise building in a capital city, nuclear power-plant, toxic waste disposal unit, pharmaceutical company) has the knowledge and expertise to assess risk in its environment and the willingness to take positive action to minimise/eliminate harm to the general public.
The problem highlighted by the rash and in some cases ludicrous reactions to 9/11 at airports and with airlines is that the majority of the travelling public and flight/cabin crew do not see the majority of new measures as enhancing or in any way improving security on board.
Before anyone works at an airport/airline they should be stringently scrutinised by the host country's security/police service and given a clearance which should include fingerprinting. Security cards, with photos no older than 6m and fingerprints, then issued. Random comparison of the prints on the cards and the person carrying the card to be undertaken at all airports/airlines by an external agency. A mismatch means immediate arrest for the carrier of the card and the person to whom it was issued and their suspension for all time from work with any airport/airline.
For the travelling public, in the UK at least there seemed to be little problem with the one small bag (preferably see-through) to carry on - in fact in various queues I found myself in people were almost vying to have the most effective bag for security folks to check! Dutyfree alcohol and other glassware purchases are the next problem - in the right hands the smallest item (or no item at all) can be deadly. So why not a specific lockable overhead bin for duty-free only? pax to be relieved of purchases while waiting in lounge? then the chance of a drunk angry person waving their own giant bottle around is lessened...
Nothing will prevent a determined criminal/terrorist from attempting to pursue their aims, but like all good crime prevention, all measures introduced should be to make it so tedious that airports and airlines and other likely targets are just too difficult. Downside? non key targets might be selected but when the aim of the current situation appears to be global terror this is less likely.
As with everything, there is one truth. Security measures that should be in place may not be in all sorts of industries and it is vital that the whistle-blower in those industries has a means by which his/her genuine concerns can be raised to appropriate authorities - often the larger the organisation the less possible it is for someone down the "food chain" to air concerns!
JMHO
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It's all nonsese for crew. I had my nail scissors taken off me at East Midlands and was made to pay for the postage to get them back (I was on a "W" pattern to somewhere hot but ending up in Manchester).
The Israelites have got the right idea and use profilers for the pax. The profilers are not often wrong, and with the history of the 4 by 2's and conflict they know a thing or two about security.
Yes, let's have tight security, but please D for T, MAKE IT USEFUL AND DON'T PAY LIP-SERVICE TO IT.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Israelites have got the right idea and use profilers for the pax. The profilers are not often wrong, and with the history of the 4 by 2's and conflict they know a thing or two about security.
Yes, let's have tight security, but please D for T, MAKE IT USEFUL AND DON'T PAY LIP-SERVICE TO IT.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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I don't know whether screwdrivers are still banned for flight crew or not as I have not carried one for ages. However it amused me that coincidentally with this particular ban coming into effect, my company, keen to do their bit for enhanced security, required us to open and inspect the interior of all openable hatches on the exterior of our aircraft on turnaround. Just in case an engineer or some other person authorised to carry a screwdriver on the apron had used one of these small hatches to locate a bomb in the aircraft. To ensure that this check was carried out, a form was supplied which had to be signed by the captain in numerous places, and handed to the dispatcher before departure. we always departed, usually on schedule.................!
Yep!
Around that time with the same form. I did not have my screwdriver to open the said hatches as it had been taken off me at security. So I didn't sign the form. Oh what fun that caused in the respect that all parties just didn't see the problem.
I guess security type people think pilots have telekinesis ability.
Hoh! Hum!
Yes security is very very very important. But why do we as pilots put up with this nonsense. It would seem from previous threads that if you mention the crash axe in the flt deck(to Security) you could find oneself under arrest. So we seem to be letting it ride.
More sense is required so security themselves can concentrate more on the real threat.
Around that time with the same form. I did not have my screwdriver to open the said hatches as it had been taken off me at security. So I didn't sign the form. Oh what fun that caused in the respect that all parties just didn't see the problem.
I guess security type people think pilots have telekinesis ability.
Hoh! Hum!
Yes security is very very very important. But why do we as pilots put up with this nonsense. It would seem from previous threads that if you mention the crash axe in the flt deck(to Security) you could find oneself under arrest. So we seem to be letting it ride.
More sense is required so security themselves can concentrate more on the real threat.
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What intrigues me is will they confiscate the toenail clippers etc from the US pilots who’re packing a 357 magnum?
You can just hear the conversation. “Sorry sir; you can’t take your clippers or tweezers on board the aircraft, it’s a security risk”
You can just hear the conversation. “Sorry sir; you can’t take your clippers or tweezers on board the aircraft, it’s a security risk”
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The other day we had a passenger get on the aircraft at Stn and hand the No 1 an envelope with some sharp scissors in it.
The scissors had been confiscated by security placed in the envelope and give back to the pax with the instruction to hand them in to the crew when she boarded!!!
Mmmmm makes perfect sence to me!!!!
The scissors had been confiscated by security placed in the envelope and give back to the pax with the instruction to hand them in to the crew when she boarded!!!
Mmmmm makes perfect sence to me!!!!
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It Happened at ANC
Courier was fully authorized and approved to carry a handgun. Passing through airport security with the crew a set of nail clippers were found in his carry-on. He was made to break off the nail file portion of the clippers! This just goes to prove that Nail clippers are far more dangerous than a loaded automatic pistol.
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ok here is one for you,as an engineer with my box of sharp tools [I hear engineers will have to have plastic tools soon] I taxi my cargo aircraft from the hangar do runs and then park on stand I have not been checked at all [hanger is land side not airside] now in the backI can have BIN Larden and 60+ tons of sentex or 60+ tons of metal tea spoons and the BAA Know NOTHING!!!!!!
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 25th Sep 2002 at 22:33.
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security
as general melchett said security isnt a dirty word! after 23 years in the raf andhaving been involved in security from time to time it never ceases to amaze me how petty and small minded some so called security people can be. i'm guessing that the people who are taking tweezers off you are probably paid peanuts and get about one hours training. why not treble the security guys pay and allow them to use their judgement, or am i being too logical for the civil aviation industry?
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Dear AVMAN, thank you for saying that I am in fact an Engineer as I did call it a hangar. However what do you call a hangar when there is two or more?
I would love for you to work for us as we could not doubt have a right set too over what Pilot's [if thats what you are] put in tech logs.
One of my favourite pen off's is "pilot changed found satisfactory"
Tat tar for now.
I would love for you to work for us as we could not doubt have a right set too over what Pilot's [if thats what you are] put in tech logs.
One of my favourite pen off's is "pilot changed found satisfactory"
Tat tar for now.
Paxing All Over The World
Canberra
No - too logical for policiticians that have their nose firmly placed up Bush's B@ck$ide.
One other implement that we may carry on board - Nay encouraged to carry on board is the famous lap top computer. Airlines are so keen that they even supply power in the armrest for it.
I wonder if 'Security' have considered the damage that a 2Kg slab of metal and hard plastic does, when swung with force at a human being's head?
or am I being too logical for the civil aviation industry?
One other implement that we may carry on board - Nay encouraged to carry on board is the famous lap top computer. Airlines are so keen that they even supply power in the armrest for it.
I wonder if 'Security' have considered the damage that a 2Kg slab of metal and hard plastic does, when swung with force at a human being's head?