Saudia attacked
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Saudia attacked
The FAA is joining Bush in trying to penalize any thing that carries the name Saudi Arabia for 9/11, yesterday two Captains' FAA licences were revoked only on the basis of nationality. The rest will continue. I wonder if American Airlines would have been penalized for the Oklahoma tragedy, also based on the name American which coincides with the nationality of the perpetrators.
Rumor says Saudia Airlines is already on the way to adopt a JAR based legislation rather than FAR very soon (CARs ?)
Rumor says Saudia Airlines is already on the way to adopt a JAR based legislation rather than FAR very soon (CARs ?)
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>>I wonder if American Airlines would have been penalized for the Oklahoma tragedy, also based on the name American which coincides with the nationality of the perpetrators.<<
I don't know about that but I'm reasonably sure American Airlines was penalized by the Saudi hijackers in the 9-11 attacks and the shoe bomber in another attempt.
Yep, flame bait...
I don't know about that but I'm reasonably sure American Airlines was penalized by the Saudi hijackers in the 9-11 attacks and the shoe bomber in another attempt.
Yep, flame bait...
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Looks like it wasnt flame bait......
JEDDAH, 17 September About 150 Saudi pilots are remaining idle at home without jobs as the American Embassy in Riyadh refused to issue them visas to complete their training courses in the United States, Al-Hayat reported.
Despite efforts by Saudi Arabian Airlines to solve the problem of these pilots by sending them to European countries for training, the Saudi pilots of MD-90 aircraft are required to visit the US for training on the aircraft. Training on MD-90 planes is not available in other countries.
Most of the pilots are now sitting at home for about a year. They have to continue in the same situation for another year if the US does not change its regulations, the paper reported quoting informed sources.
US authorities have blacklisted a number of Saudi pilots after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington. These pilots are not allowed to visit the US and would be questioned if they visited, the sources said.
The sources told the Arabic daily that the US authorities had canceled the license of some pilots, despite their long hours of flying. There are also unconfirmed reports on American advice to fire 25 pilots from service.
JEDDAH, 17 September About 150 Saudi pilots are remaining idle at home without jobs as the American Embassy in Riyadh refused to issue them visas to complete their training courses in the United States, Al-Hayat reported.
Despite efforts by Saudi Arabian Airlines to solve the problem of these pilots by sending them to European countries for training, the Saudi pilots of MD-90 aircraft are required to visit the US for training on the aircraft. Training on MD-90 planes is not available in other countries.
Most of the pilots are now sitting at home for about a year. They have to continue in the same situation for another year if the US does not change its regulations, the paper reported quoting informed sources.
US authorities have blacklisted a number of Saudi pilots after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington. These pilots are not allowed to visit the US and would be questioned if they visited, the sources said.
The sources told the Arabic daily that the US authorities had canceled the license of some pilots, despite their long hours of flying. There are also unconfirmed reports on American advice to fire 25 pilots from service.
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Hi Mutt,
Same source, quotes Dr Khaled ibn Bakr, director general of the airline, as saying that Saudia has already signed a contract with a national company to establish an aviation training centre in Jeddah.
Apparently there will be two facilities at the center; one for aviation training and another for aviation safety. It is anticipated that this will reduce training expenditure abroad and avoid the problems related to sending Saudi pilots abroad for training.
"The center aims at training Saudi cadre in aviation to meet the Kingdom's requirements," an official statement by the airline company said, adding that the training would be provided in line with the rules and standards set by the American FAA.
I guess this is not going to happen overnight, and where will they get their experienced trainers from? Can they source this internally?
Otherwise would they be able to use China Northern's facility at Kunming, in China, when it is ready later this year?
Same source, quotes Dr Khaled ibn Bakr, director general of the airline, as saying that Saudia has already signed a contract with a national company to establish an aviation training centre in Jeddah.
Apparently there will be two facilities at the center; one for aviation training and another for aviation safety. It is anticipated that this will reduce training expenditure abroad and avoid the problems related to sending Saudi pilots abroad for training.
"The center aims at training Saudi cadre in aviation to meet the Kingdom's requirements," an official statement by the airline company said, adding that the training would be provided in line with the rules and standards set by the American FAA.
I guess this is not going to happen overnight, and where will they get their experienced trainers from? Can they source this internally?
Otherwise would they be able to use China Northern's facility at Kunming, in China, when it is ready later this year?
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What evidence for the assertion that they are trying to "penalize any thing that carries the name Saudi Arabia"? Are _all_ Saudi pilots needing to travel to the U.S. under this restriction, or only certain ones?
This might be Dubya-style overreaction, or it might be justified.
Any supporting facts either way?
This might be Dubya-style overreaction, or it might be justified.
Any supporting facts either way?
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Even canadian pilots cannot go sim training in the USA unless they accept to go through a very thorough security check by the US. And yet, these pilots are flying in and out of the USA every day. And Canada is supposed to be a friendly country...This is stupidity at his best.
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To Train or not to Train
FlightSafetyBoeing in California is having a hell of time training
the Saudi's in the MD90, crews can not get visa's and it is not from a lack of trying. The crews are basically told to go home and wait for a phone call from the consulate, this is pretty sad as the Saudis having been training in the US for years, all of the crews get their ATP's in the US, and continue to return to the US as they change aircraft.
To get around the visa problems, the Saudis are using training centers outside of the US. The Saudis buy AMERICAN made aircraft but can not train in the same country they buy the aircraft from, do I smell AIRBUS in the future!!!
MIDNIGHT MIKE
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the Saudi's in the MD90, crews can not get visa's and it is not from a lack of trying. The crews are basically told to go home and wait for a phone call from the consulate, this is pretty sad as the Saudis having been training in the US for years, all of the crews get their ATP's in the US, and continue to return to the US as they change aircraft.
To get around the visa problems, the Saudis are using training centers outside of the US. The Saudis buy AMERICAN made aircraft but can not train in the same country they buy the aircraft from, do I smell AIRBUS in the future!!!
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Despite efforts by Saudi Arabian Airlines to solve the problem of these pilots by sending them to European countries for training, the Saudi pilots of MD-90 aircraft are required to visit the US for training on the aircraft. Training on MD-90 planes is not available in other countries.
First, the US protects Saudi Arabia and liberates Kuwait during the Gulf War.
Second, as a return favour, the American heavilly pressure the Saudiīs to "buy American" (and definitely NOT Airbus) when they needed new equipment for their airline. Mc Donnell Douglas needed some more orders for their MD 90, so guess what, the Saudiīs buy the (commercially failed) MD90.
Third, they do not allow the pilots to enter the US for training because 4 hijacked aircraft crash in the US on 9/11. (the CIA, FBI and NIA were all sleeping that particular day
) Donīt get me wrong, I love the US of A and Americans, but sometimes........
Last edited by Robert Vesco; 18th Sep 2002 at 14:24.
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BlueEagle,
Past decisions always come back to haunt people, the Saudi MD90s are unique with a glass cockpit similiar to the MD11, there are only 3 suitable simulators in the world, Long Beach and Thales UK (2). The Thales simulators will soon be dispatched to the ME.
Newswatcher,
The article makes it sound as if the training center is a result of the visa problem, it is actually a long overdue facility that is under constuction with 4 simulators almost ready in Thales.
Lunkenheimer
ALL.
Mutt.
Past decisions always come back to haunt people, the Saudi MD90s are unique with a glass cockpit similiar to the MD11, there are only 3 suitable simulators in the world, Long Beach and Thales UK (2). The Thales simulators will soon be dispatched to the ME.
Newswatcher,
The article makes it sound as if the training center is a result of the visa problem, it is actually a long overdue facility that is under constuction with 4 simulators almost ready in Thales.
Lunkenheimer
ALL.
Mutt.
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The Airbus product line, in the dream of its directors:
how p!ssed are you at the US government?
(a) a bit narked [A321]
(b) pretty miffed [A330]
(c) damn annoyed [A346]
(d) furious [we'll have all the A380s you can build please]
how p!ssed are you at the US government?
(a) a bit narked [A321]
(b) pretty miffed [A330]
(c) damn annoyed [A346]
(d) furious [we'll have all the A380s you can build please]
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Well, if you look at this all the US government is doing is refusing Visas to some foreign nationals, as is its right. Just because traditionally such Visas have been available they are not available by right, but as a privilege. Yes it fits badly with the US government pushing them to buy MD-90s, but politics should always be kept out of commerce (or you get the farce of France and Russia supporting Iraq for monetary gain).
Remember most of the terrorists (the Guardian/BBC still haven't managed to rebrand them freedom fighters, I take it?) who helped kill over 3,000 people last year were Saudi nationals who trained to fly in teh USA. Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted, but it's their stable, they can lock it when they please.
Remember most of the terrorists (the Guardian/BBC still haven't managed to rebrand them freedom fighters, I take it?) who helped kill over 3,000 people last year were Saudi nationals who trained to fly in teh USA. Locking the stable door after the horse has bolted, but it's their stable, they can lock it when they please.
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Whilst I can see the US does want and need to be cautious, if the US DOES go to war with Iraq they will STILL want Saudi backing and the Saudis have STILL said the US can use their bases if UN approved, seems a bit one sided to me!
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Even canadian pilots cannot go sim training in the USA unless they accept to go through a very thorough security check by the US.
By the way, a request for this approval must be resubmitted EVERY time training is done. So in 6mos I submit to it again.
As an American with a Catholic background, would any of the armchair weenie diplomats here please inform me when it becomes less difficult to enter and travel about Saudia Arabia as a tourist than to do the same in the United States.
You see, I missed the celebrations and roasted lamb feasts on 9/11 and after, and feel left out.
ps:Regarding lost aircraft orders, I'd have to use Rudolph Guiliani's example,'take your 10 million dollar check , and shove it up your arse'.
You see, I missed the celebrations and roasted lamb feasts on 9/11 and after, and feel left out.
ps:Regarding lost aircraft orders, I'd have to use Rudolph Guiliani's example,'take your 10 million dollar check , and shove it up your arse'.