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10 hour domestic scenic flight - PER to Antarctica

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10 hour domestic scenic flight - PER to Antarctica

Old 26th Jan 2021, 07:43
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10 hour domestic scenic flight - PER to Antarctica

Departed Perth this morning, Qantas VH ZNH 787-900, due back in another couple of hours. Still cruising around down there at FL10 at the moment.
I don't know hour I'd feel about this - couped up in cattle class for the 10 hours and finishing up back where you started.
The $7K Biz Class would be alright for the well heeled.
Advertised as, no passport required, no luggage required, happy for you to do it in your board shorts if you wish.
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 16:57
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Sightseeing flights over Antarctica from Oz (and previously NZ) have been happening since 1977. Have a Google of "Mount Erebus Air New Zealand" to see why Air New Zealand stopped these flights
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Old 26th Jan 2021, 17:10
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Go by sailing ship it is very much better:- https://www.barkeuropa.com/
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 10:37
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Whilst in essence these 'sightseeing' flights are a good idea, Singapore Airlines for example, have been doing them from Changi for a while I believe for a few hours roundtrip to nowhere, the Qantas flights are another level of magnitude altogether. How does ETOPS etc work when carrying passengers on such flights ? Whilst the reliability of the modern jets and their powerplants is exemplary, if some unanticipated Mx issue were to happen that needed a diversion, where the hell would/could you land ? Possibly an emergency landing at McMurdo, but that might be a one-way affair. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing such a flight, and certainly not paying for the pleasure. Great idea, bad destination imho. As has been mentioned the ANZ crash made for sobering reading. Btw, did the crashed ANZ DC-10 ever visit LHR back in the day ?

Speaking of long flights, Lufthansa is preparing to fly a plane load of scientists from Hamburg to Port Stanley (FI) on Feb 1st to meet up with their research vessel going to the Antarctic. Apparently the flight will take 15-16hrs nonstop, not sure if they'll use an A350 or A340.
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 13:11
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
Btw, did the crashed ANZ DC-10 ever visit LHR back in the day ?
Yes, frequently.

As it happens, I was in Maintrol/Ops Control in QB when the news of the accident came through. Cue much activity among my Engineering colleagues to find out when BA had last carried out maintenance on that particular aircraft.
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 13:58
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Originally Posted by in2it54 View Post
Still cruising around down there at FL10 at the moment.
Cruising at 1000 feet!!!???
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 18:42
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Air New Zealand Flight 901 - 1977, Yes remember this, when i [email protected],250+killed.

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Sightseeing flights over Antarctica from Oz (and previously NZ) have been happening since 1977. Have a Google of "Mount Erebus Air New Zealand" to see why Air New Zealand stopped these flights
Yes remember this, when I was @ school , big news then over 250 people killed , most of wreckage is still there , two stops in NZ Auckland , Wellington > Antarctica. Apparently a typing error, in the printout from Air New Zealand’s ground computer system , added to the issues. This DC10 crash is still NZ's worst air disaster to date .. Later investigations found a variety of factors caused the crash. Pilot error was to blame, but so to were administrative stuff-ups at Air New Zealand and an unusual weather phenomenon, I believe , very sad .

Last edited by TheFrenchConnection; 27th Jan 2021 at 21:55. Reason: clarity
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 20:00
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Originally Posted by TheFrenchConnection View Post
Yes remember this, when I was @ school , big news then over 250 people killed , most of wreckage is still there , two stops in NZ Auckland , Wellington > Antarctica. Flight crew had changed flight co-ordinates in computer prior to take off. lack of communication that they had done this with Air NZ This. error caused this crash apparently. This DC10 crash is still NZ worst air disaster to date .. Whiteout, then into mountain . Pilot Error in final report , I believe , very sad .
I would strongly suggest not attempting to summarise the causes of an air crash in a few sentences on spectators balcony (or any) forum. Especially when one of your sentences is grossly incorrect.
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Old 27th Jan 2021, 22:43
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
How does ETOPS etc work when carrying passengers on such flights ? Whilst the reliability of the modern jets and their powerplants is exemplary, if some unanticipated Mx issue were to happen that needed a diversion, where the hell would/could you land ? Possibly an emergency landing at McMurdo, but that might be a one-way affair.
Same ETOPS rules as any other flight - you can't be more than 180 minutes (or whatever your max ETOPS diversion time is) from a suitable airport (I doubt McMurdo qualifies but I may be wrong).
Nearly all the flights from the mainland US to Hawaii are twins using 180 minute ETOPS - since there isn't anything between North American and the Hawaiian islands (it is the only route that must have 180 minute (or longer) ETOPS - all other primary routes can be done with shorter ETOPS, although perhaps not with optimal routing).
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Old 28th Jan 2021, 08:27
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Both ANZ/TE and Qantas/QF have historically flown Antarctica scenic 12 hour ICE pleasure flights since they first got the aircraft able to do that unique mission - DC-10 30, and 747-238B from 1977 onwards, Qantas added in 1994 with the latest RR 747-438ER.
History - https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/phot...0two%20summers.

ANZ's day trip ICE flights screeched to halt, never to be restarted, after their tragic 1979 Mt Erebus crash.

Qantas continues to this day with the seasonal Southern Summer (NOV-FEB) Scenic ICE flights from various Oz airports with a specialist ICE Tour operator chartering the aircraft.
Day trips -
https://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/

It was always the domain of QF's 747's (the -438ER version up to the date of their retirements) to fly these missions.
I was wondering what type would then do this seasons' flights with the 747 gone and the A380's parked.
IIRC there is some operational issue of the A380 going into the realms of the deepest Southern Hemisphere - someone here will update me on that...But I know that they were not flying them on the PER-JNB and SYD-JNB due to some issues - these routes are now flown by 787.

Surprisingly,
The ICE flights are now on 787-9's - a Twin ETOPS aircraft. (ETOPS was never an issue with DC-10 or 747 ICE ops)

ETOPS has jumped from 120 minutes to 180 then leap forwards a few years reaching 330, then 370 minutes...with 420 mooted for the A350.
Extension beyond ETOPS 240 has been on a case by case basis.
The first ETOPS 330 rating went to the 777-200ER, with Air New Zealand operating it between Auckland and Buenos Aires. The Boeing 787 received the same ETOPS 330 rating in 2014, enabling LATAM to operate it (instead of the A340) between Santiago and Sydney / Auckland.
The A350 was the first aircraft to receive the maximum, ETOPS 370 rating. It was the first aircraft to receive a rating higher than 180 minutes before it even entered service
(ie: out of the box)

AFAIK The 330 minute ETOPS clearance allows the QF 787 to fly to & around Antarctica, but not to Overfly the whole Continent due to the only absolute no-go area under ETOPS 330 & 370 which is directly over Antarctica. However the ICE day trip flights do not overfly the whole region.

What to see on day trips -
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/04/how-...m-the-air.html


I personally was to do a QF 747 ICE trip, but due to the 747 retirements, then Covid my plans were all scuppered.
I do not think I will wish to fly on a Twin 787 to Antarctica.
I am gonna use the money for an Antarctica Expedition cruise instead on one of the new Hybrid ICE Polar ships.
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Old 28th Jan 2021, 09:39
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Originally Posted by Tarq57 View Post
I would strongly suggest not attempting to summarise the causes of an air crash in a few sentences on spectators balcony (or any) forum. Especially when one of your sentences is grossly incorrect.
And entirely unnecessary when it's already been done for you:

The probable cause of this accident was the decision of the captain to continue the flight at low level toward an area of poor surface and horizon definition when the crew was not certain of their position and the subsequent inability to detect the rising terrain which intercepted the aircraft’s flight path.
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