Aeromexico pilots request Amsterdam sightseeing
Avoid imitations
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In the mid 1980s an exceptionally heavy snow fall cut off much of the south east of England. So much so that RAF Support helicopters were tasked with giving “aid to the civil power”. My Puma flight commander flew some senior policemen who wanted to see the situation for themselves. They weren’t on intercom and after they had bumbled around at 500 feet or so and were on their way back to base, a note was passed forwards to the cockpit. It read “What speed and height do you normally fly these in wartime?” The crew obliged by showing them. A couple of minutes later a second note appeared, in rather shaky handwriting.
It simply said: “Oh $HIT!”
It simply said: “Oh $HIT!”
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Had a nice low level trip in the S-61N from St Mary's to Penzance Heliport in the last few weeks before the service was withdrawn in 2012. We came south around the peninsula past Porthcurno and Mousehole and I doubt we went to 1000' the whole trip, certainly on that section of the flight I'd have estimated only 500' - we appeared to be almost level with the cliff tops which I think rise to about 300' in places. Vis really was superb.
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In the 1980s, I was in the tower at Taif as a build up of incoming heads of state was happening. While chatting with the controller, the pilot of the inbound president of Sudan's 707 was heard calling Jeddah, saying the president wanted to do a tour around Jeddah, taking in the sights. As it was afternoon when nothing much happened in Jeddah, this was OKayed and the pilot called Taif to tell them he was on his way. The tour around Jeddah must have confused the pilot as initial approach to Taif had him heading for a landing on the main Jeddah to Riyadh road which happened to be parallel to, but displaced by half a mile from the active runway!
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KSFO ATC were always very obliging and give us a bay tour over Alcatraz before heading NE up over Vegas for home if it was quiet enough. One evening I remember we got vectored all around the Bay on the climbout taking in Alcatraz, back to the west over Golden Gate and then a 180 degree turn back for Saulsilito. The third pilot had their work cut out providing a running commentary to the passengers.
Coming home from San Francisco to Heathrow (passenger) I always seem to come off 27L, over the peninsular spine to the Pacific, turn right up the coast then through the Golden Gate so I get a tour whether I want it or not!
With one exception - listening to channel 9 on a 777 the controller asked if we could do a Shoreline 9 departure. The immediate answer was in the affirmative. The controller then asked "are you sure?". A short delay and the answer was still yes. If felt like a full power take off which got us off very quickly followed by an immediate right turn to keep us inside the Bay. Very sprited!
With one exception - listening to channel 9 on a 777 the controller asked if we could do a Shoreline 9 departure. The immediate answer was in the affirmative. The controller then asked "are you sure?". A short delay and the answer was still yes. If felt like a full power take off which got us off very quickly followed by an immediate right turn to keep us inside the Bay. Very sprited!
Last edited by Hartington; 3rd May 2021 at 19:02. Reason: wrong runway
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I beg to differ, I live under the departure path for London Heathrow and you still notice them passing over at 6 ~ 7,000 feet, really can't hear the difference between any of its other Airbus or Boeing counter parts in all honesty
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Sightseeing ... denied!
linkAeromexico Pilot Not Allowed To Wake Amsterdam With 4,000ft Flight An Aeromexico 787 pilot is getting some special attention after having his request for a low-altitude flight over Amsterdam published online. The request to Schiphol air traffic control was to fly over the Dutch capital at 4,000 feet. With the request taking place sometime after 22:40 local time on January 17th, it would have woken up much of the city and was thus denied.
The flight took place on the evening of January 17th, with the Dreamliner having taken off at 22:34, according to FlightRadar24.com. Luchvaart News notes that the pilot requested a deviation from the usual flight path to fly over Amsterdam at an altitude of 4,000 feet with the Boeing 787-9.
[...]
Pilot: Is there any chance that we can make a visual flight over Amsterdam at 4,000?
ATC: Flyover Amsterdam at 4,000 feet?! Confirm [this is what] you want?
After having the request denied, the pilot responds, “Okay, well, I was thinking because it was near the airport,” to which ATC responds, “yes, but then the whole of Amsterdam will wake up,” adding “next time you have to visit Amsterdam when everything is open.”
The aircraft was starting a nearly 12-hour flight to Mexico City. Photo: FlightRadar24.com Was the pilot out-of-line? Internet reaction certainly seems split on this ‘incident.’ Some are appalled that the pilot would even ask, while others applaud him for the courage to make the request.
While it may seem to be an outrageous question considering it’s just one individual’s desire to move a 787 away from an established flight path for the purpose of getting a nice view, it’s certainly not unprecedented.
In fact, The Points Guy reported in April on a situation that saw FedEx pilots request a low-altitude pass over Manhattan with an MD-11 freighter. In that situation, air traffic control granted the request. In the audio clip included in the Twitter post below, the pilot can be heard commenting at 0:46, “wow, what a view!”
It’s because of situations like April’s FedEx flight over New York City that adds credibility to the saying “You won’t know if you don’t ask,” as well as the variation “If you don’t ask, the answer is always ‘no.'”However, where the pilot can be criticized is the fact that the request was made at nearly 23:00 on a Sunday night. Whether it’s adults having work or children going to school the following day, it’s likely that a good portion of Amsterdam would have been sleeping by then, or at least getting ready to settle in for the night. Thankfully, the air traffic controller was aware of this and reminded the pilot of this fact.
What do you think about this request? Was it out of line? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
Simple Flying reached out to both Aeromexico and LVNL, Netherlands’ air traffic control service, for comment. At the time of publication, no responses were received by either organization.
The flight took place on the evening of January 17th, with the Dreamliner having taken off at 22:34, according to FlightRadar24.com. Luchvaart News notes that the pilot requested a deviation from the usual flight path to fly over Amsterdam at an altitude of 4,000 feet with the Boeing 787-9.
[...]
Pilot: Is there any chance that we can make a visual flight over Amsterdam at 4,000?
ATC: Flyover Amsterdam at 4,000 feet?! Confirm [this is what] you want?
After having the request denied, the pilot responds, “Okay, well, I was thinking because it was near the airport,” to which ATC responds, “yes, but then the whole of Amsterdam will wake up,” adding “next time you have to visit Amsterdam when everything is open.”
The aircraft was starting a nearly 12-hour flight to Mexico City. Photo: FlightRadar24.com Was the pilot out-of-line? Internet reaction certainly seems split on this ‘incident.’ Some are appalled that the pilot would even ask, while others applaud him for the courage to make the request.While it may seem to be an outrageous question considering it’s just one individual’s desire to move a 787 away from an established flight path for the purpose of getting a nice view, it’s certainly not unprecedented.
In fact, The Points Guy reported in April on a situation that saw FedEx pilots request a low-altitude pass over Manhattan with an MD-11 freighter. In that situation, air traffic control granted the request. In the audio clip included in the Twitter post below, the pilot can be heard commenting at 0:46, “wow, what a view!”
It’s because of situations like April’s FedEx flight over New York City that adds credibility to the saying “You won’t know if you don’t ask,” as well as the variation “If you don’t ask, the answer is always ‘no.'”However, where the pilot can be criticized is the fact that the request was made at nearly 23:00 on a Sunday night. Whether it’s adults having work or children going to school the following day, it’s likely that a good portion of Amsterdam would have been sleeping by then, or at least getting ready to settle in for the night. Thankfully, the air traffic controller was aware of this and reminded the pilot of this fact.
What do you think about this request? Was it out of line? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
Simple Flying reached out to both Aeromexico and LVNL, Netherlands’ air traffic control service, for comment. At the time of publication, no responses were received by either organization.
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Why on earth should Aeromexico or Netherlands ATC bother to reply ?
Probably due to all of the fake outrage posted in social media....
Internet reaction certainly seems split on this ‘incident.’ Some are appalled that the pilot would even ask, while others applaud him for the courage to make the request.
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Many years ago, as an ATCO at LATCC, in the early hours in the morning, the only aircraft on frequency was a Lufthansa 747. As he came up to Woodley he changed course slightly. Just to show that I was watching him I said LHxxx, I see you have just made a course correction, are you OK ? He replied: Sorry London I should have advised you. Just trying to give my passengers a better view of London. My reply Confirm you are LH oder Luftwaffe. Happy days.
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On the other hand , a B787 at 4000ft waking up people at 22:40? the decibels audible on the ground will be far less than a motorbike driving though.
Slow day on the news indeed ..
Slow day on the news indeed ..
Most of the residents of Amsterdam only seem to wake up at 22:40 in my experience -
Reminds me of the time we were operating out of RNLAF Valkenburg on maritime ops in the Baltic. On recovery from the north-east, ATC wanted to know what aircraft type we were. The response, "Nimrod", met with evident 'think's bubbles' over the R/T. Further questions and answers attempted to explain that we were a "former DH Comet modified to military maritime flying operations".
As the Navigator, I was surprised when we were given an early descent and told we were to take up radar headings. Further successive descents were instructed and more heading changes. I informed the flight deck that we were entering Schiphol's terminal area. As we levelled off at 200' and could see the ATC tower to our left, ATC came up " Ah! now we know what you are, take up own navigation to Valkenberg!"
To which the Captain responded somewhat tartly "If you'd asked us for a Fly-By, we would've given you one!"
Great view of Amsterdam though!
As the Navigator, I was surprised when we were given an early descent and told we were to take up radar headings. Further successive descents were instructed and more heading changes. I informed the flight deck that we were entering Schiphol's terminal area. As we levelled off at 200' and could see the ATC tower to our left, ATC came up " Ah! now we know what you are, take up own navigation to Valkenberg!"
To which the Captain responded somewhat tartly "If you'd asked us for a Fly-By, we would've given you one!"
Great view of Amsterdam though!
In more innocent times I would (& have) allowed such requests (not in airspace around big cities or sensitive areas). But nowadays this is out of the question - even during daytime. The pilot ought to have known better than to have made such a request. The controller was well “on the ball” & should be commended for his common sense.
"in more innocent times" - back in the 70s LTN - IBZ Brittania Airways - we were on finals to IBZ in clear conditions when the Captain came on and said that because it was a nice day, they were including a free sightseeing trip around the island and to 'enjoy the view'. Obviously we had gone into some kind of holding pattern (runway in use had changed from northerly approach to southerly as it happens) but it cheered up my white knuckle wife no end. The 'excursion' ended with a lovely 180 degree short finals turn over the sea. Awesome!
Those were the days.
Those were the days.
On a homebound AAR Trail of four Jaguars with our VC10, we gave away all our fuel to get them to the east coast and we diverted into Lester Pearson Int'l, Toronto.
The next day, we had been chatting over brunch in the CN Tower about, "Wouldn't it be great if we could get some photos of Niagara Falls on departure?" Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We asked if we could conduct "a modified Buffalo departure". ATC knew what we wanted to do, so gave us initial vectors to the overhead of Niagara Falls with the instruction to "enjoy, and tell us when you're done!".
After three full orbits at 1000' with the pax and crew all getting great photos, we gave our thanks to ATC and climbed out en-route.
As kcockayne has stated, they were "more innocent times" - how the world has changed.
The next day, we had been chatting over brunch in the CN Tower about, "Wouldn't it be great if we could get some photos of Niagara Falls on departure?" Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We asked if we could conduct "a modified Buffalo departure". ATC knew what we wanted to do, so gave us initial vectors to the overhead of Niagara Falls with the instruction to "enjoy, and tell us when you're done!".
After three full orbits at 1000' with the pax and crew all getting great photos, we gave our thanks to ATC and climbed out en-route.
As kcockayne has stated, they were "more innocent times" - how the world has changed.