View Poll Results: As a "Profesional Pilot" would you like your own private forum
I am a PP NO
194
45.65%
I am a PP YES
177
41.65%
I am not a PP NO
97
22.82%
I am not a PP YES
15
3.53%
I think this is like flogging a dead horse
421
99.06%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 425. This poll is closed
Can we have a new forum please
Just call me Rotty
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rotty's Bar and Grill (@RJAF) Shinshu JP
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PPRuNe primarily defined
From the Illustrated Oxford Dictionary:
professional 1. of or belonging to or connected with a profession
pilot 1. person who operates the flying controls of an aircraft
rumor 1. general talk or hearsay of doubtful accuracy
network 1. an arrangement of intersecting horizontal and vertical lines, like the structure of a net
Perhaps it should be renamed "Forum For Only Those Who Fly Big Jets For a Major Airline", or
FFOTWFBJFMA
...not as nice, somehow
.
professional 1. of or belonging to or connected with a profession
pilot 1. person who operates the flying controls of an aircraft
rumor 1. general talk or hearsay of doubtful accuracy
network 1. an arrangement of intersecting horizontal and vertical lines, like the structure of a net
Perhaps it should be renamed "Forum For Only Those Who Fly Big Jets For a Major Airline", or
FFOTWFBJFMA
...not as nice, somehow
.
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Hmmmm.... it seems some of the users are revolting! (That line is open to misinterpretation and no doubt will be).
Firstly, let me assure those of you who appear to have come to the conclusion that this poll somehow carries any weight and will be used by me to change policy, that it is no such thing and has been posted by someone with their own agenda and is in no way an official PPRuNe survey.
I have always stated that this forum and the majority of the others will always be open to anyone who cares to read or make posts in them. Many others have stated much more eloquently than I am able as to why they were made open in the first place and why they always will remain so.
Robin made a post several pages back with a very pertinent question which no one has bothered to even attempt to provide a solution to. I will repeat the relevant part here:
In my experience airline pilots are no more exclusive than anyone else. They come from all walks of life and backgrounds. Some are eloquent and witty others are boring and uncouth. Some are great listners and others are incessant blaggers. Some are pleasant to be around and others are best avoided. There is no common theme apart from the fact that we all have taken and passed the relevant exams and jumped through the hoops put in our way before we have been granted the licence.
To suggest that having an exclusive forum only for members who hold the coveted licence will somehow prevent some of the tripe that we get on this and other forums is a fantasy. I know for a fact that some of the posters on this forum who have incensed and enraged some of you who are demanding an exclusive forum are just as likely to carry on winding you up on an exclusive forum because they too are not only licence holders but even senior training captains. Gosh!
For example, there is one fairly regular poster on these forums that manages to generating more irrelevant posts from others who are so easily wound up and unable to ignore fatuous comments because his posts are usually simple, to the point but more often than not condescending. The person concerned also posts under a different guise in a private forum and again manages to generate exactly the same reaction that he does on this public forum. This person is an experienced, current airline pilot and just because he would be posting in an exclusive forum for licence holders does not mean that he wouldn't cause just as much flak with his condescending attitude. There are just as many licence holders who react to such posts with their 'shock, horror, grief' with irrelevant posts and even abuse whether they are posting on here or in a private forum exclusive to professional pilots.
It is the rich variety of experience that make the forums what they are. I spend several hours most days of the week just filtering through posts here, often moving threads to more relevant forums so that they will attract the wider audience. It is only when we get the occasional poster who is so obviously unaware of their 'bovine excrement' quota excedence and tries to pass off comment from a point of authority, such as The Guvnor or someone making such stupid remarks such as that by flch10000 with uneducated allegations about something they clearly have no knowledge about but belive that they do, that I get involved.
There are many occasions that someone posts something that is irrelevant or out of place and more often than not it is just easier to ignore it and carry on with the thread but unfortunately there is always someone else who for, some undefined egotistical reason, likes to point out the irrelevance, thereby defeating the purpose of their post in the first place. Now you expect me and the others to somehow administer a license verification system!
Who qualifies as a professional pilot? One of the busiest forums is the Military Aircrew forum and would you include military aviators as professional pilots? I would and that is why there is a seperate forum for them. How would I go about verifying their licences? What about pilots from countries other than the UK? How do we set up the process? Do we get everyone who has a licence to fax us a copy of it together with a copy of their airline ID? What about unemployed professional pilots? Once we receive a faxed copy of the licence how do we verify it isn't a fake or a forgery? The list goes on.
Lets say that I employ one person full time, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to somehow verify that every applicant is indeed a pilot with a professional licence, would you be prepared to share in the costs? As Robin suggested, lets just limit it to just 5,000 professional pilots. £10,000 a year for the full time employee plus various taxes plus costs of faxes, phone calls, correspondence, office space, data protection licence etc., etc., etc. That would be £4 a year per pilot. I can guarantee that if I were to charge just 50p a year for access that I woulod be lucky to get 100 applicants and some of you think that it would only take a few minutes per application... think again and multiply your result by the number of applicants.
Sorry, but unless someone can come up with a solution that is workable, affordable and realistic it isn't going to happen in a hurry. Most pilot only meetings I have ever been to have usually been very boring and dull affairs. It is only when we get the rich tapestry of thoughts and comments from others who have an interest in our profession that we get these interesting forums.
I know that some of you feel that they are not what they used to be but I think that is just a false impression due to a quiet news week for professional aviation. Like everything here, the quality ebbs and flows. We still have some of the best posters with the right credentials on here than anywhere else and as far as I am concerned they will always be welcome. I suggest that those of you who feel the quality has deteriorated to waste less energy on having a go at the 'percieved' offenders as you would be very upset to find that you had more of them than average in your exclusive forum.
There will always be pilots who believe that our profession should remain a 'black art'. We have all made many sacrifices and jumped through all the hoops and over all the hurdles that the licencing process puts before us. We have actually taken the risks and gone from wannabe to professional pilot. We do not just dream about being in the job. We are not just hobbyists who read everything about the job but we have actually gone down the road of gaining the licence and we actually earn our living doing the job. We know the difference between learning to use the FMC and actually using it in real life. We know the difference between reading about fatigue and actually experiencing it. We know the difference between the glamour stories about the job and the reality of commercial pressures and safety considerations on the line.
There will always be enthusiasts who are fascinated by our jobs. There will always be some who are well read and versed in what our jobs involve but no matter how well informed that believe they are they will never know what it is like in reality. Unless they make the commitment and pass all the exams and testing followed by the struggle to get their first jobs and the long climb up the ladder of experience, they will only ever be outsiders as far as we are concerned.
I for one, do not belive that our profession should be a 'black art'. I am proud to have actually made the leap from enthusiast to professional pilot. I don't mind that there are some people out there who 'believe' they can do it but choose not to. Let them believe it. Hopefully, by reading some of the forums on here they may make the decision to try for it too. It is not a 'black art'. It is a challenging career that is made more so because of the difficult licensing process but it is nothing more special than that.
Not everyone wants to go through the struggle and not everyone has the aptitude. Many go into other trades that are required to provide the infrastructure which supports us in our jobs and their interest in our aspect of it does not diminish. I know that I have no desire to be an engineer but I respect their jobs and find it fascinating when they take the time to explain something to me. I find it interesting when someone explains their job to me, whether it is a dispatcher or an air traffic controller. Why must we have an exclusive forum only for professional pilots when our profession depends on the myriad of other jobs that are required to make ours possible?
So, the majority of forums on PPRuNe will continue to be open. The many advertisers you see here and some who many of you freely have a go at will continue to pay for the costs of running the site. If anyone is willing to guarantee me £20,000 a year I will set up the exclusive forum only accessible by professional licenced pilots. Until then, enjoy and carry on contributing if you have anything worthwhile saying. I or my moderators may move or delete your posts if you are out of order or out of place but there will always be enough content to keep the majority of us informed and occasionally entertained.
Firstly, let me assure those of you who appear to have come to the conclusion that this poll somehow carries any weight and will be used by me to change policy, that it is no such thing and has been posted by someone with their own agenda and is in no way an official PPRuNe survey.
I have always stated that this forum and the majority of the others will always be open to anyone who cares to read or make posts in them. Many others have stated much more eloquently than I am able as to why they were made open in the first place and why they always will remain so.
Robin made a post several pages back with a very pertinent question which no one has bothered to even attempt to provide a solution to. I will repeat the relevant part here:
It would take less than 4 minutes to set up the forum some of you want and the rest of our airline careers to gain the time to earn the money allowing us to administer the membership work. More than 60% of PPRuNers are full time aviation professionals - please let us know exactly how you suggest we wade through and verify 20,000 plus applications. Actually - let's say 5,000 just for fun.
Hmmm, well I'm knackered this morning - you probably are as well so lets issue this challenge. Other than FAA licence holders who are on a database let's have your ideas on positively verifying a single application form submitted to us.
We're genuinely sorry PPRuNe isn't the place you remember - but then again it probably never was.....
Hmmm, well I'm knackered this morning - you probably are as well so lets issue this challenge. Other than FAA licence holders who are on a database let's have your ideas on positively verifying a single application form submitted to us.
We're genuinely sorry PPRuNe isn't the place you remember - but then again it probably never was.....
To suggest that having an exclusive forum only for members who hold the coveted licence will somehow prevent some of the tripe that we get on this and other forums is a fantasy. I know for a fact that some of the posters on this forum who have incensed and enraged some of you who are demanding an exclusive forum are just as likely to carry on winding you up on an exclusive forum because they too are not only licence holders but even senior training captains. Gosh!
For example, there is one fairly regular poster on these forums that manages to generating more irrelevant posts from others who are so easily wound up and unable to ignore fatuous comments because his posts are usually simple, to the point but more often than not condescending. The person concerned also posts under a different guise in a private forum and again manages to generate exactly the same reaction that he does on this public forum. This person is an experienced, current airline pilot and just because he would be posting in an exclusive forum for licence holders does not mean that he wouldn't cause just as much flak with his condescending attitude. There are just as many licence holders who react to such posts with their 'shock, horror, grief' with irrelevant posts and even abuse whether they are posting on here or in a private forum exclusive to professional pilots.
It is the rich variety of experience that make the forums what they are. I spend several hours most days of the week just filtering through posts here, often moving threads to more relevant forums so that they will attract the wider audience. It is only when we get the occasional poster who is so obviously unaware of their 'bovine excrement' quota excedence and tries to pass off comment from a point of authority, such as The Guvnor or someone making such stupid remarks such as that by flch10000 with uneducated allegations about something they clearly have no knowledge about but belive that they do, that I get involved.
There are many occasions that someone posts something that is irrelevant or out of place and more often than not it is just easier to ignore it and carry on with the thread but unfortunately there is always someone else who for, some undefined egotistical reason, likes to point out the irrelevance, thereby defeating the purpose of their post in the first place. Now you expect me and the others to somehow administer a license verification system!
Who qualifies as a professional pilot? One of the busiest forums is the Military Aircrew forum and would you include military aviators as professional pilots? I would and that is why there is a seperate forum for them. How would I go about verifying their licences? What about pilots from countries other than the UK? How do we set up the process? Do we get everyone who has a licence to fax us a copy of it together with a copy of their airline ID? What about unemployed professional pilots? Once we receive a faxed copy of the licence how do we verify it isn't a fake or a forgery? The list goes on.
Lets say that I employ one person full time, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to somehow verify that every applicant is indeed a pilot with a professional licence, would you be prepared to share in the costs? As Robin suggested, lets just limit it to just 5,000 professional pilots. £10,000 a year for the full time employee plus various taxes plus costs of faxes, phone calls, correspondence, office space, data protection licence etc., etc., etc. That would be £4 a year per pilot. I can guarantee that if I were to charge just 50p a year for access that I woulod be lucky to get 100 applicants and some of you think that it would only take a few minutes per application... think again and multiply your result by the number of applicants.
Sorry, but unless someone can come up with a solution that is workable, affordable and realistic it isn't going to happen in a hurry. Most pilot only meetings I have ever been to have usually been very boring and dull affairs. It is only when we get the rich tapestry of thoughts and comments from others who have an interest in our profession that we get these interesting forums.
I know that some of you feel that they are not what they used to be but I think that is just a false impression due to a quiet news week for professional aviation. Like everything here, the quality ebbs and flows. We still have some of the best posters with the right credentials on here than anywhere else and as far as I am concerned they will always be welcome. I suggest that those of you who feel the quality has deteriorated to waste less energy on having a go at the 'percieved' offenders as you would be very upset to find that you had more of them than average in your exclusive forum.
There will always be pilots who believe that our profession should remain a 'black art'. We have all made many sacrifices and jumped through all the hoops and over all the hurdles that the licencing process puts before us. We have actually taken the risks and gone from wannabe to professional pilot. We do not just dream about being in the job. We are not just hobbyists who read everything about the job but we have actually gone down the road of gaining the licence and we actually earn our living doing the job. We know the difference between learning to use the FMC and actually using it in real life. We know the difference between reading about fatigue and actually experiencing it. We know the difference between the glamour stories about the job and the reality of commercial pressures and safety considerations on the line.
There will always be enthusiasts who are fascinated by our jobs. There will always be some who are well read and versed in what our jobs involve but no matter how well informed that believe they are they will never know what it is like in reality. Unless they make the commitment and pass all the exams and testing followed by the struggle to get their first jobs and the long climb up the ladder of experience, they will only ever be outsiders as far as we are concerned.
I for one, do not belive that our profession should be a 'black art'. I am proud to have actually made the leap from enthusiast to professional pilot. I don't mind that there are some people out there who 'believe' they can do it but choose not to. Let them believe it. Hopefully, by reading some of the forums on here they may make the decision to try for it too. It is not a 'black art'. It is a challenging career that is made more so because of the difficult licensing process but it is nothing more special than that.
Not everyone wants to go through the struggle and not everyone has the aptitude. Many go into other trades that are required to provide the infrastructure which supports us in our jobs and their interest in our aspect of it does not diminish. I know that I have no desire to be an engineer but I respect their jobs and find it fascinating when they take the time to explain something to me. I find it interesting when someone explains their job to me, whether it is a dispatcher or an air traffic controller. Why must we have an exclusive forum only for professional pilots when our profession depends on the myriad of other jobs that are required to make ours possible?
So, the majority of forums on PPRuNe will continue to be open. The many advertisers you see here and some who many of you freely have a go at will continue to pay for the costs of running the site. If anyone is willing to guarantee me £20,000 a year I will set up the exclusive forum only accessible by professional licenced pilots. Until then, enjoy and carry on contributing if you have anything worthwhile saying. I or my moderators may move or delete your posts if you are out of order or out of place but there will always be enough content to keep the majority of us informed and occasionally entertained.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Spot on Danny! Anyone who cannot turn a blind eye to the tripe that is sometimes posted by pilots and non pilots and feels "too good" to be on Pprune should not irritate themselves anymore by simply removing Pprune from their favourites list!
I like to hear from some of the other pruners who aren't pilots and I find it easy to ignore the well known idiots.
ES
I like to hear from some of the other pruners who aren't pilots and I find it easy to ignore the well known idiots.
ES
Bear Behind
Quite right too, Danny.
I'm NOT a pilot (professional or otherwise), but if I didn't continue to do my job, none of you pilots (professional or otherwise) would be piloting anything anywhere (OK, an exaggeration, but you get my drift). It's not only pilots who like to read and use this BB you know. Yes, I am a professional in the (commercial) aviation industry.
Am I welcome here? I do hope so. Are my opinions as valid as those of a pilot? I think so. I surf my particular areas of interest, but venture into others because I like to hear the news and views of other members of our community. Perhaps those who consider themselves superior enough to warrant their own private, locked forum are the kind who may well be welcome to it.
PKB
I'm NOT a pilot (professional or otherwise), but if I didn't continue to do my job, none of you pilots (professional or otherwise) would be piloting anything anywhere (OK, an exaggeration, but you get my drift). It's not only pilots who like to read and use this BB you know. Yes, I am a professional in the (commercial) aviation industry.
Am I welcome here? I do hope so. Are my opinions as valid as those of a pilot? I think so. I surf my particular areas of interest, but venture into others because I like to hear the news and views of other members of our community. Perhaps those who consider themselves superior enough to warrant their own private, locked forum are the kind who may well be welcome to it.
PKB
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Thanx Danny
As an ATSA, I used take a "Fam Flight" at EVERY opportuninty
Unfortunately since Sept 11 "No way Jose"......
However, I have had the privilidge [spelling] of escorting on a "semi" official, [aka PPRUNE setup] a BAL line skipper, two PPL[H]. plus several "wannabees" to EGCC/MAN Tower/APC/MACC
and guess what? They ALL enjoyed it .
To ALL those who want a "Private Forum". Do you read and/or reply to any other Forum? If so WHY????? They are not "Professional Pilots" domain, are they?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
As an ATSA, I used take a "Fam Flight" at EVERY opportuninty
Unfortunately since Sept 11 "No way Jose"......
However, I have had the privilidge [spelling] of escorting on a "semi" official, [aka PPRUNE setup] a BAL line skipper, two PPL[H]. plus several "wannabees" to EGCC/MAN Tower/APC/MACC
and guess what? They ALL enjoyed it
.To ALL those who want a "Private Forum". Do you read and/or reply to any other Forum? If so WHY????? They are not "Professional Pilots" domain, are they?
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
Paxing All Over The World
I have been involved in message boards since 1983, when e-mail was in it's infancy and the web not invented. The situation regarding people who post from then until now is unchanged. The reason is simple - we are all human beings!
I presently participate (to varying degrees) in three message boards across a variety of interests (professional and amateur) and across continents and have been involved in others in past years. I belong to groups that have open postings (PPRuNe) and closed postings and can be irritated in either set-up. I have long learnt to ignore the stupid and insulting posts because they only reply with more stupidity and insults.
My continued appreciation to the Chief Pilot and his crew for allowing us all to jump aboard.
I presently participate (to varying degrees) in three message boards across a variety of interests (professional and amateur) and across continents and have been involved in others in past years. I belong to groups that have open postings (PPRuNe) and closed postings and can be irritated in either set-up. I have long learnt to ignore the stupid and insulting posts because they only reply with more stupidity and insults.
My continued appreciation to the Chief Pilot and his crew for allowing us all to jump aboard.
Perhaps the original few posts on this thread tried to make the mesh too fine by talking about professional pilots only. Aware that it's somebody else's train set anyway, IMHO I think a degree of restriction on some fora to aviation professionals ( pilots, including PPLs with a professional attitude, cabin crew, flt engineers, ground engineers, ATCOs, ATSAs, aviation lawyers, aviation doctors, tels engineers, aerodrome firefighters, sorry if I've missed anybody out) would help. Even SLF have valid contributions sometimes, provided they identify themselves as such, but even they have their own forum on PPRuNe. Anoraks, wannabees, PC sim drivers etc rarely if ever make valid contributions to 'professional' aviation matters, especially if they don't identify themselves, or worse, masquerade as professionals.
I don't think I'm the only one to get fed up with, for example, the recent question cluttering up Tech Log on how VASIS/PAPIS work, when there is a more appropriate forum for Questions. In contrast, the one on Rain Gutters was from a professional (and was a valid question to ask, because it wasn't covered on my course either), and it developed into a good debate.
Chief of the train set, although it will take up valuable moderators' time, might more use of the Move facility help with what is undoubtedly a problem for many users?
I don't think I'm the only one to get fed up with, for example, the recent question cluttering up Tech Log on how VASIS/PAPIS work, when there is a more appropriate forum for Questions. In contrast, the one on Rain Gutters was from a professional (and was a valid question to ask, because it wasn't covered on my course either), and it developed into a good debate.
Chief of the train set, although it will take up valuable moderators' time, might more use of the Move facility help with what is undoubtedly a problem for many users?
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Hello all
Hew Jampton said:
Hew, whilst I appreciate your opinion, the identification & verification process still remains an issue, AND those individuals who are closet wanabee's will still declare themselves to be what they may not be, AND the "Winder-uppers" will continue to crank the handle, with some (me on occasion) rising to the bait.
All in all, I reckon that the bluecoat forum (and others) exists for the connoisseurs and those who wish to be (mutually) exclusive.
There are places for exclusivity and there are places for inclusiveness, PPrune is the inclusive area.
Best Regards
Standard_Departure (SID)
ATCO
Hew Jampton said:
Perhaps the original few posts on this thread tried to make the mesh too fine by talking about professional pilots only. Aware that it's somebody else's train set anyway, IMHO I think a degree of restriction on some fora to aviation professionals ( pilots, including PPLs with a professional attitude, cabin crew, flt engineers, ground engineers, ATCOs, ATSAs, aviation lawyers, aviation doctors, tels engineers, aerodrome firefighters, sorry if I've missed anybody out)
All in all, I reckon that the bluecoat forum (and others) exists for the connoisseurs and those who wish to be (mutually) exclusive.
There are places for exclusivity and there are places for inclusiveness, PPrune is the inclusive area.
Best Regards
Standard_Departure (SID)
ATCO
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How about a forum where only professional pilots can post but others can read? That way, those 'on their way there' and other interested parties can learn without interfering with professional pilots' discussions.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Danny you are my guru......
Wannabees and Walter Mittys were/are always exposed very efficiently within minutes and all that's left for them is standing naked in front of the crowd.....
For my own experience, I got carried away by the horrible pics of dead kids on the airshow disaster and was blasted by a cargo seller and an ex RAF bomber (coincidence?), but the composed answer of another pilot made see my mistake and I'm thankful for that.
This is the best ever message board I've been on all my life.....
Cheers
Capt.KAOS
Wannabees and Walter Mittys were/are always exposed very efficiently within minutes and all that's left for them is standing naked in front of the crowd.....
For my own experience, I got carried away by the horrible pics of dead kids on the airshow disaster and was blasted by a cargo seller and an ex RAF bomber (coincidence?), but the composed answer of another pilot made see my mistake and I'm thankful for that.
This is the best ever message board I've been on all my life.....
Cheers
Capt.KAOS
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Read then Post !
Bird Strike said:
Previously on this thread: Capt PPrune said:
then Hew Jampton said:
To which I replied :
My point is : The MMWC (main man what counts) has already said that the identification & verification proccess is to big for full time workers doing the web on the side.
Best Regards
SID
(ATC)
How about a forum where only professional pilots can post but others can read?
It would take less than 4 minutes to set up the forum some of you want and the rest of our airline careers to gain the time to earn the money allowing us to administer the membership work. More than 60% of PPRuNers are full time aviation professionals - please let us know exactly how you suggest we wade through and verify 20,000 plus applications. Actually - let's say 5,000 just for fun.
Perhaps the original few posts on this thread tried to make the mesh too fine by talking about professional pilots only. Aware that it's somebody else's train set anyway, IMHO I think a degree of restriction on some fora to aviation professionals ( pilots, including PPLs with a professional attitude, cabin crew, flt engineers, ground engineers, ATCOs, ATSAs, aviation lawyers, aviation doctors, tels engineers, aerodrome firefighters, sorry if I've missed anybody out)
Hew, whilst I appreciate your opinion, the identification & verification process still remains an issue, AND those individuals who are closet wanabee's will still declare themselves to be what they may not be
Best Regards
SID
(ATC)
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Yes maybe only time served unrestricted JAR instructors
should be permitted access to the hallowed forum of flight
instructors. 1000 + instructional hours (excluding microlights)
With valid medical certificates.
should be permitted access to the hallowed forum of flight
instructors. 1000 + instructional hours (excluding microlights)
With valid medical certificates.
Rebel PPRuNer
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legals, SLF and money
the other prob is if a company sued Danny for the details of the verification used for a particular ID who posted hush hush stuff. While Danny can currently say "I only know the IP", he would then have ATPL details etc. While these issues are pertinent to the closed forums, it might still happen in the "semi-open" ones.
I am not a PP, I did one year of a BEng Aero and stuffed it up. I am SLF but do my best to help CC etc. by reporting issues with equipment quietly in a "you might have someone look at..." way. Without SLF feedback, the industry would be a much less profitable place! If I found myself on an Astreaus a/c, I know that there are some quality folks running the show, based on PPRuNe opinions.
Finally, a lot of the PPs here are "another numbers" who haven't bothered their @rse paying even a few bob to help this service. I earn <25k USD in my job and while it wasn't a lot it wasn't nothing either - a lot of the PPs kicking up a fuss should consider the cost of running a verified service when now they pay b*gger all!
sorry - I tend to go on a bit.
Byeeee!
I am not a PP, I did one year of a BEng Aero and stuffed it up. I am SLF but do my best to help CC etc. by reporting issues with equipment quietly in a "you might have someone look at..." way. Without SLF feedback, the industry would be a much less profitable place! If I found myself on an Astreaus a/c, I know that there are some quality folks running the show, based on PPRuNe opinions.
Finally, a lot of the PPs here are "another numbers" who haven't bothered their @rse paying even a few bob to help this service. I earn <25k USD in my job and while it wasn't a lot it wasn't nothing either - a lot of the PPs kicking up a fuss should consider the cost of running a verified service when now they pay b*gger all!
sorry - I tend to go on a bit.
Byeeee!
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PPrune forums
My feelings are that the professionals (not being one myself only a PPL ) should have a forum set aside unencumbered by the likes of people whom dont know what they are talking about.
However it would be nice for the non professionals to at least be able to view the forum but not interact with it.
If I was in a bar having a detailed discussion with someone on a particular subject, I would be somewhat annoyed by some dick head interjecting with banter they know nothing about and hi jacking the conversation.
This would allow non professionals to set up their own thread based on their viewing of the "closed" professional forum, elsewhere.
SB
However it would be nice for the non professionals to at least be able to view the forum but not interact with it.
If I was in a bar having a detailed discussion with someone on a particular subject, I would be somewhat annoyed by some dick head interjecting with banter they know nothing about and hi jacking the conversation.
This would allow non professionals to set up their own thread based on their viewing of the "closed" professional forum, elsewhere.
SB
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As a fellow professional - an atco - I would urge you all to vote NO!!!
Our professional interests overlap frequently, as do those who some of you take for granted ( operations, engineers and ground staff - the folk who make your working day 100% easier).
It's vital that a link between us, which allows free and open discussion, exists.
If you can't dismiss the dross, which admittedly sometimes appears on the site from time to time, you don't deserve to be in the job in the first place.
Only the most arrogant and foolish of the so called professionals amongst you would vote for this move.
Our professional interests overlap frequently, as do those who some of you take for granted ( operations, engineers and ground staff - the folk who make your working day 100% easier).
It's vital that a link between us, which allows free and open discussion, exists.
If you can't dismiss the dross, which admittedly sometimes appears on the site from time to time, you don't deserve to be in the job in the first place.
Only the most arrogant and foolish of the so called professionals amongst you would vote for this move.