Pilot bars - uniform not drinking establishments!
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Pilot bars - uniform not drinking establishments!
Random question but; what do different numbers of bars mean on co pilots? I know captains always have 4 but when I flew on a recent flight with Norwegian, the first officer ( I assume? ) only had one, however on other Norwegian flights, I’ve seen them with 2 or 3 bars. I guessed it was based on hours/seniority but when I watched the recent EasyJet documentary, even the most junior had 2 bars. Likewise with BA.
It depends entirely on the taste of the company's management team and/or Chief Pilot. Every company I've worked for except one, F/Os wore three bars. Two of those companies used the grade SFO and there was no distinction in rank; one company used two bars for FOs who had not yet finished their line training. First company I worked for used two for FO and three for SFO but upon the arrival of a new boss, all FOs got a third bar. I understand that when he went elsewhere, his replacement reinstated two-bar FOs.
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you wouldn't believe how much oxygen is wasted on the subject of bars. How many, what colour. Will the uniform jumper or jacket have tabs to put them on...
I only ever bother to see if we can get a pen holder on the LH sleeve of the jumper, when that gets veto'd I loose interest very quickly.
The subject gets some people very excited though.. Some I suspect would take an extra bar rather than a pay rise.
I only ever bother to see if we can get a pen holder on the LH sleeve of the jumper, when that gets veto'd I loose interest very quickly.
The subject gets some people very excited though.. Some I suspect would take an extra bar rather than a pay rise.
Doesn't mean much in the modern airline era and even less in the bizjet world. My first corporate aviation employer - 2 bar silver, the next 3 bar gold, current operation no bars, we just have smart suits and take it in turns to be the Captain. (We only use 4 bar epaulettes if we go to the gulf or somewhere where they respect/expect a bit of bling!)
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From my working experience:
In a legacy carrier I know of, the first officers wear two bars until they've been employed at the airline for 10 years.
- Four bars = Captain
- Three bars = First Officer (>1,500 hrs)
- Two bars = Second officer (<1,500 hours)
In a legacy carrier I know of, the first officers wear two bars until they've been employed at the airline for 10 years.
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I think the 2 bar thing is mainly an anglo-saxon feature, haven't seen that over here to be honest. To be honest, 2 bars usually meant Purser or cabin crew manager.
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Denti, I don't know where "over here" is, but I can tell you that 2 bars is a lot more common than you seem to think - and certainly not just an anglo-saxon feature as you put it.
Like port and starboard, copied from the maritime world where;
One bar: second mate/third engineer
Two bars: first officer/second engineer
Three bars: chief mate/first engineer
Four bars: captain/chief engineer
To distinguish between deck and engine officers, one had a command diamond, the other a propeller. Electricians, radio operators and pursers had their own system with silver bars.
The system was pretty universal, when a pilot entered a ship he immediately knew who was who.
Per
One bar: second mate/third engineer
Two bars: first officer/second engineer
Three bars: chief mate/first engineer
Four bars: captain/chief engineer
To distinguish between deck and engine officers, one had a command diamond, the other a propeller. Electricians, radio operators and pursers had their own system with silver bars.
The system was pretty universal, when a pilot entered a ship he immediately knew who was who.
Per
And not to forget that Engineers have a purple background on their bars to identify them - copied from Royal Navy circa 1865
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The Middle East like their gold - at one outfit I had 4 stripes (no color in between) and at another 3 stripes with the maroon/purple background. Didnt mean a lot as the cleaning supervisor had 2 stripes - although it did give much enjoyment seeing some new Captains trying to explain some inbound technical defect to the cleaner from the sub continent who was just nodding and saying 'yes sir'..
I worked with a man who owned a airline company in Denmark, he wore 5 stripes. I challenged him one day as to why he wore 5 stripes and his reply was simple
"When you own the airline, you can wear what the F%ck you want". I left it at that
"When you own the airline, you can wear what the F%ck you want". I left it at that
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Ship I was on (130,000 tons) Captain wore jumper & jeans. One could go on the bridge
anytime. Coffee & biscuits there, except if he was in his full rig, only worn if the pilot was on board.
Junior ranks, usually uniform.
Last ship, Captain (Italian) always in whites. Medics with red stripe between the braid.
anytime. Coffee & biscuits there, except if he was in his full rig, only worn if the pilot was on board.
Junior ranks, usually uniform.
Last ship, Captain (Italian) always in whites. Medics with red stripe between the braid.
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Stars and bars
I seem to recall that in the mid 1990s (possibly later, but when they still had 742s and 743s), AI had a lengthy FE's dispute because they wanted to have three bars rather than two. Ran on for quite a while.
On certain carriers, CX for one, there are "half bars", with the result that a junior FO has two and a half stripes (much like a naval Lt Commander) and then, SFOs have three. I think LH have something similar.
On certain carriers, CX for one, there are "half bars", with the result that a junior FO has two and a half stripes (much like a naval Lt Commander) and then, SFOs have three. I think LH have something similar.
