Late leaving the ground?

[Espada III]

Originally Posted by pax britanica

I havent heard a 78 close up but I imagine with those monster fans, fancy cowlings and much improved attenuation technology they are pretty quiet on take off and do not need to climb out as steeply as possible for noise abatement. if thats the way of the world its abit of a shame because watching a nice light BA757 off to CDG was an impressive sight as they seemed to be trying to make the 6000 ft initial SID level by the end of the runway. Good point about the photo opportunities though.

I was once the only passenger on a late evening BA AIrbus 319 from MAN - LHR just after they had bought BMI. We taxied out behind two heavies going to the Middle East, but when they turned left for the beginning of the runway, we went straight on, turned right onto the runway about half-way down and were airborne within about five seconds. Phenomenal rate of climb as well.

[Groundloop]

Watched Concorde taking off from 27R once and as it the sound of it slowly (or very slowly!) faded into the distance the sound of about 60 car alarms going off in the Long Stay Car Park could be heard!

[Daysleeper]

Originally Posted by KelvinD

Musket90: I realise the piano keys for 09R are irrelevant to a 27L departure. I was using them as an indication of how far down the runway this aircraft was getting off the ground. I have watched literally dozens of 787 departures on this runway, with more than a few this day. You get a feel for roughly where an aircraft is going to be so you can get the camera ready. The United flight took me by surprise at where he was when I took the photos. By contrast, an hour earlier the Qantas Perth bound 787 departed and that one was at approx the same height as the United but 300 yards before the piano keys, well before the end of the runway.
Not concerned, just surprised. As I said, no screaming school children & definitely no plummeting!
Cheers

You can always contact the CAA or AAIB. I understand a few departure performance mistakes / mis-loads have only been uncovered by concerns from the ground being followed up by relevant authorities.

That said a 787 mate of mine reckon an engine failure on 07L departure would pass over the M25 and reservoirs at a height both entirely legal and completely terrifying.

[DaveReidUK]

One giveaway indicating that a departure is being investigated for a height infringement is that its details have been suppressed on Heathrow's WebTrak system.

That's what happened with the infamous Jet Airways B77W departure in August 2016. It was initially shown on WebTrak, but subsequently it disappeared from the public system and failed to reappear within the 1-year window.

As of today, UA935 is still visible.

[KelvinD]

On the subject of late leaving the ground, this one caught my eye:
Ship Photos, Container ships, tankers, cruise ships, bulkers, tugs etc
It caught my eye for 2 reasons:
1. The line painted below the airline logo: "Viaje de Esperanza". I am not a Spanish speaker but doesn't this mean "Journey of Hope"?
If so, reason 2 might explain that.
2. The flight should have left the previous evening at around 22:40. The photo was taken at 14:06 the next day, making it 16 hours late leaving the ground!

[DaveReidUK]

Yes, but as the old saying goes "To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive".

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

One giveaway indicating that a departure is being investigated for a height infringement is that its details have been suppressed on Heathrow's WebTrak system.

That's what happened with the infamous Jet Airways B77W departure in August 2016. It was initially shown on WebTrak, but subsequently it disappeared from the public system and failed to reappear within the 1-year window.

Final report on the Jet Airways incident just published: http://dgca.gov.in/accident/reports/incident/VT-JEK.pdf.




Scary stuff.

[rog747]

our BMA midland baby dc-9's would depart from the runway 28R intersection opposite T1 A7 gate and could be at 3-4000' by the end of the runway
ATC loved us....fond memories

going to my car after Late's in the northside car park often would see in the late 70's/early 80's the late departures of SQ SAA and QF classic 747's all rather heavy and loaded using almost full length to the end -
these a/c were -200B PW variants so iirc could just do the longer hauls going East or South...not sure if SIN was non stop then or went via DXB and again not sure if BKK/SIN was non-stop then for QF deps

BA still had the early PW -100's and most of their departures going East or South were 'stoppers'
Their -236 RR Rollers came along soon though

[treadigraph]

BA still had the early PW -100's and most of their departures going East or South were 'stoppers'

Flew on a BOAC 747 to Nairobi in '71, pretty sure we stopped at Frankfurt for some reason.

[Dan Winterland]

Watched Concorde taking off from 27R once and as it the sound of it slowly (or very slowly!) faded into the distance the sound of about 60 car alarms going off in the Long Stay Car Park could be heard!

Concorde departures set off car alarms in the staff car park at the end of 27R on every departure. The car park staff used to have a nice little side-line in jump starting flat car batteries at a tenner a time. Mine went flat after a ten day trip. I purchased one of those solar plug in chargers after that.

[Dan Winterland]

One think to remember is that performance calculations take into account the loss of power on one engine at decision speed (V1). In a twin, you loose half the power whereas in a four jet, you only lose a quarter. For this reason, four jets can be less powerful and will consequently have flatter initial climbs on all engines. A good example of this is the A330/340-300. Essentially the same airframe except that the the 330 has 2 x 70,000lbs of thrust whereas the 340 has 4 x 30,000lbs of thrust. Despite having 20,000lbs less thrust, the 340 can lift about 35 tonnes more than the 330. Also, the point at which VR (rotate speed) will be reached is further down the runway.

However, it doesn't explain the OPs concern. Here's a link to a performance related incident. Incident: Jet Airways B773 at London on Aug 30th 2016, unsafe departure

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Dan Winterland

Here's a link to a performance related incident. Incident: Jet Airways B773 at London on Aug 30th 2016, unsafe departure

Doh, see posts #25 and #28.

[Airbanda]

[QUOTE=rog747;10220726]

going to my car after Late's in the northside car park often would see in the late 70's/early 80's the late departures of SQ SAA and QF classic 747's all rather heavy and loaded using almost full length to the end -
these a/c were -200B PW variants so iirc could just do the longer hauls going East or South...not sure if SIN was non stop then or went via DXB and again not sure if BKK/SIN was non-stop then for QF deps/QUOTE]

IIRC long hauls from east in early eighties tended to show 'last stop Bombay' on the T3 arrivals board, but perhaps beyond the 100 series by then.

[rog747]

my PIA 747-200 flight home from a work stint in KHI for BMA was all stations stopper -

0730LT off KHI stopping at DXB FCO FRA AMS CDG (or ORY?) LHR a rather long day lol

on the way out it was DXB only