Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner)
Reload this Page >

Motor Sich AN12s to Doncaster

Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Motor Sich AN12s to Doncaster

Reply

Old 21st Dec 2017, 09:20
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
Motor Sich AN12s to Doncaster

Folks,

Delighted at hearing an AN12 grumbling over Durham/North Yorkshire around 0300 the other morning, en route Gothenburg-Doncaster.

I notice another one this morning, this time out of Malmo, once again heading for "Bawtry International" :-)

Anyone have an idea what the reason is? I suspected some kind of car production line supply issue either in Sweden or the UK(Volvo? SKF? Gothenburg?).

Last edited by Midland 331; 21st Dec 2017 at 09:40.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 11:47
  #2 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 54
Posts: 4,667
Had one grumble eastbound over Croydon this morning - heard but not seen due to the clag. Unfortunate reg: UR-CNT.

Heard a very deep drone yesterday morning and was delighted to see that my ears' diagnosis of "German Air Force Transall" was correct - it went into St Mawgan for some reason or other.
treadigraph is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 14:15
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 367
I heard the An-12 rumbling over here and then followed it on FR24; for some unknown reason it flew in roughly a straight line from Gothenburg to Newcastle and then made a >90degree turn down towards Finningley. Strange routing at the busiest of times, even more so at that quiet time of the morning.
jensdad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 15:06
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
That's the one. I had the same thought about the abrupt turn overhead Newcastle. Not as if there were any traffic conflicts at stupid o'clock.

Even in descent the engines made a pleasurable sound. An occasional benefit of fiftysomething virus-driven insomnia.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 15:48
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 8,172
Originally Posted by jensdad View Post
I heard the An-12 rumbling over here and then followed it on FR24; for some unknown reason it flew in roughly a straight line from Gothenburg to Newcastle and then made a >90degree turn down towards Finningley. Strange routing at the busiest of times, even more so at that quiet time of the morning.
Sounds more like a FR24 issue than an actual routing. What and when was the flight ?
DaveReidUK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 16:26
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
Nope. I'm familiar with FR24's foibles.

Around 0300 on 19th, IIRC.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 16:26
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 367
Hi Dave,
Must admit, I would have thought that as well - it does sound dubious I know - but I heard it droning overhead and went on FR24 to see what it was. Flight number was M96550 / MSI6550. Reg is UR-11316
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-11316#fe31178
jensdad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 16:41
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
That's today's.

The early morning one routed more or less the same way.

It was if they only had basic navaids, and used the NEW VOR. But it doesn't exist these days.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 17:02
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 8,172
Originally Posted by Midland 331 View Post
Nope. I'm familiar with FR24's foibles.

Around 0300 on 19th, IIRC.
Thanks.

I see what you mean - it does look like a deliberately flown track, rather than one of those instantaneous 90 changes in direction that FR24 seems to be fond of.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 21st Dec 2017, 17:05
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 171
i know a certain An-12 that likes 90 degree turns on a much larger scale, see attachment.

And it's not the first time i've heard it on that track, i suspect they can't really provide direct service so they fly over their homebase and have another flight plan leaving their homebase.
Attached Images
wiedehopf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 09:04
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Durham
Age: 73
Posts: 158
Is this the same one that flew on a Northerly heading from Doncaster to Gothenburg at about 2100 hrs last Wednesday, it turned North Easterly between MME and NEW. You cannot mistake those engines, even at FL 250 it made the inside of the house quite noisy.
oldart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 10:08
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
Quite possibly. I wonder why it doesn't route via Ottringham? Mischievous thought:- maybe they want to keep the over-water bit as short as possible?
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 12:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 367
That thought crossed my mind as well, BD331. The conspiracy theorist in me is thinking that if we were still in the throes of the Cold War they'd be having a look at the military bases in the Vale of York (I have heard stories of Aeroflot aircraft taking detours over sensitive sites back in the 70s and 80s) but those days are gone now.
jensdad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 12:20
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 367
Just looked at the track it took between Doncaster and Malmo yesterday afternoon - a straightish line from DSA to MMX would have taken it just North of the Dutch and German coasts, within easy reach of Den Helder, Groningen, Sylt etc, but instead it took a northerly route and then out over the middle of the North Sea, actually making a dogleg northwards away from the nearest coastlines. Strange goings-on. It does make me wonder if wiedehopf has it and there are strange flight planning techniques here. I'm not an expert on such things so can't comment...
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-11316#fe6cb4e
jensdad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 14:42
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
It was a clear night, and the route took them close to the Leeming, Topcliffe and Linton overheads.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 15:15
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 136
Blimey, I know this is the spotters forum but you seem to enjoy a consipiracy theory...

One might suggest that the routing isn't down to any of the above reasons. It's more likely that the crew are simply flying in the airways system and as strange as it may seem, this is the best airways routing in and out of Doncaster for them.

Being from the Ukraine, they probably don't want to leave the airways system or the protection offered by controlled airspace any more than I would if I was over the Ukraine or Russia. As non-native English speakers, their passable standard of English will make it far more comfortable and predicatable for them in terms of the instructions they're likely to receive, the stations/frequencies they'll expect to talk to and the seperation they will receive from the controllers against other traffic.

It is not possible to leave Doncaster and fly immediately to the east without leaving the confines of controlled airspace. At that point they will be in the 'Open FIR' where they will not necessarily be separated from other traffic by controllers, in addition to them being less sure of whom to talk to and what service they might receive. So flying direct to destination is not a practical option for them or most other commercial traffic. Similarly, routing via Otringham is not gainful.

For a better indication, open www.skyvector.com and find Doncaster. Use the map controls at the top right to choose 'World Lo' and 'World Hi' - these will show you the low-level and high-level airways respectively.

I'd suggest they left Doncaster on the noise preferential departure to UPTON, whereby they joined the Y250 low airway going past Leeds to GASKO, then the P18 airway to NATEB near Newcastle. Thereafter, it looks like P18 to CUTEL and then L983 to PETIL to the boundary of British and Danish airspace.

Hope this helps to illuminate the routing issues and the reasons for what might otherwise seem odd routings.
Charley is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 16:24
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
I'm really not one for conspiracy theories, but with Ivan's current odd behaviour, nothing would surprise me.

We did the same in the cold war on trawlers out of Hull and "fisheries research" vessels in The Baltic, one notably crewed by an Oxbridge graduate with fluent Russian. Not a chap you'd expect to find bobbing up and down in sub-zero temperatures for the fun of it. He was the late Gordon Clough, news journalist with the BBC.

I recall talking to Capt Pyetan, a Dan Air 748 captain, Ian Lawrie, later of BMA, (but who served his time lugging freight on light twins at silly-o'clock), and they both revelled in the outrageously direct routings available for freighters in the middle of the night.

Hence, to see one stick to such a standard route at 0300 seemed strange.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 18:06
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 248
Motor Sich is a Ukrainian company, not Russian, btw.
Liffy 1M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Dec 2017, 19:07
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
A mere detail. This is a consortium of Johnny Foreigner Chappies doing reccies in the middle of the night with a view to sabotaging The Hawes Creamery, I'm sure.
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Jan 2018, 22:06
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Teesside
Posts: 473
More An12 Doncaster strangeness tonight.

Cavok Air (great name!) UR-KDM, GOT-DSA, coasts in at Tees Mouth heading south west, then abruptly turns onto south close to RAF Leeming. Why not a direct track to OTR?

A nice propliner"rumble", though!
Midland 331 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service