Grey "Armada" on the way to the UK?

[Skipness One Echo]

When you have the 'Arthur Scargills' of the world fighting for a cause you know there will never be an outcome. The word 'Negotiation' doesn't seem to be on the table so to speak.

BASSA were smashed and broken by Wee "Shoe me the effing money" Walsh. (Seriously, not making it up, google it!) Mixed Fleet were created over the cold dead corpse of the busted flush they became. And yet, shoot forward a short few years and young new cabin crew are already so demotivaated and hacked off they're on strike. Young middle class shiney faced well brought up middle class types on strike! This isn't the old dragons of the left brigade, this is what happens when the management at BA is so incredibly inept, they can't properly manage that once in a generation cost saving victory over a discredited union. How much of the money saved in smashing BASSA is now being "washed" away against a wall in paying Qatar Airways to fly BA's flight schedule because BA can't get their junior staff into work.

[wiggy]

And yet, shoot forward a short few years and young new cabin crew are already so demotivaated and hacked off they're on strike. Young middle class shiney faced well brought up middle class types on strike! This isn't the old dragons of the left brigade

Yep, a fair point. As I recall it in the early days of Mixed Fleet as a group they weren't particularly unionised but it was fairly obvious once you looked at some of the goings on that they were going to end up being driven towards the welcoming arms of a Union.

[Lordflasheart]

…. being driven towards the welcoming arms of a Union.

Which is Unite ………. while at the same time watching their elder brethren in BASSA (who are also masterminded by Unite) still doing the same or less work for more or less twice the pay, which was why BA invented Mixed Fleet in the first place.

Confused or what ? ................. I am.

[vctenderness]

The problem is that although Mixed Fleet is not represented by BASSA it is still Unite and still the same bone headed officials behind the scenes.

As others have said the equally bone headed managers in BA could not see the opportunity to improve things for the new, keen cabin crew incrementally and thereby diminishing the poisonous influence of their 'neighbours' in BASSA.

With the wanton destruction of the airlines reputation and USP by the new Iberia management I don't see a great future.

[Cymmon]

I see Mr Calder has been giving his totally informed information news regarding the seating arrangements of the Qatar Airways aircraft..
Full lie flat beds on A320's.... So businessmen can have fun on a 1-2hr flight...

Never seen a lie flat bed on a Qatar Airways A320, after all his millions of flights you would expect him to know what seats are on what aircraft...

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Cymmon

I see Mr Calder has been giving his totally informed information news regarding the seating arrangements of the Qatar Airways aircraft..
Full lie flat beds on A320's.... So businessmen can have fun on a 1-2hr flight...

Never seen a lie flat bed on a Qatar Airways A320, after all his millions of flights you would expect him to know what seats are on what aircraft...

I never thought I'd find myself defending that idiot Calder, but in his defence SeatGuru reckons that QTR have two configurations for their A320 fleet, one featuring 12 flat bed C seats (180° recline) plus 120Y, with the remainder of the A320 fleet configured as 12C+132Y..

Are they wrong ?

[Cymmon]

I've never seen lie flat.
Not possible to get lie flat in a 45" seat pitch.
Yes, the 777's are full flat beds but on an A320 no. He inferred that you have a full bed to lay on, something that BA Business travellers will be shocked at.

A7-ADA to A7-ADH seem to be 2001-2004 models in 12/132 seating.
A7-ADI seems different at 9/144
Only stand out is A7-LAA which is a 2015 model but I don't know the config of this one.
So none are completely flat bed.

I fly regularly with Qatar (60 times minumum) and again August, but I accept it looks like some have been config to herringbone in Business, but very few. Maybe for medium haul not regional routes.

I stand to be corrected and will apologise if I have made an error.

[DaveReidUK]

"The new regional cabin consists of a total of 12 seats, spread across three rows in a 2-2 configuration. These are fully flat seats which are angled ever-so-slightly towards the window. It’s the same seat that United and Air China have in business class on some of their longhaul aircraft."

Review: Qatar Airways A320 First Class Dubai To Doha

[Cymmon]

It seems the last reply crossed, and i admit that now Qatar Airways do have full lie flat beds on some A320's, so good luck to them. Not sure if they have sent any to BA.
The 777's are also due a business class upgrade but the new suites don't do it for me...

Thanks DaveReidUK for the insight of the new seats.

[champair79]

The Qatar A320s sent to BA don't have the lie-flat seats. They are the older models.

A7-LAA was Al-Maha which is now in Qatar colours. Again, no lie-flats. Rumours are Qatar wanted to send all the Al-Maha aircraft but BA objected as they thought it would confuse passengers. Hence all the aircraft sent are in full Qatar grey livery.

There are various pictures online including on the BA Flyertalk site.

Champ

[Twiglet1]

A7 LAA is in QR scheme it was painted in Shannon a while back

[edi_local]

Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur

What happens next time, when Qatar has sorted its neighbour dispute out and doesn't have the spare capacity?
Who will we see papering over the cracks then ?
Just curious?
Be lucky
David

QR were not the only airline providing relief to BA. Hi-Fly had an A340 doing LHR-EDI, as well as some other routes. Jet Time and Titan regularly lend aircraft to BA. If BA need planes or crew, there are people out there who will lease them for as long as is needed.

[crewmeal]

Unite call for another two weeks of disruption. Will QR support BA this time?

BA cabin crew to go on strike for another two weeks | Daily Mail Online

[Lordflasheart]

Will QR support BA this time?

According to stuff issued by the the CAA and DfT, the QR wet lease was granted only for the period 1 - 16 July and a further application will have to be submitted and approved for anything after 16th.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by crewmeal

Unite call for another two weeks of disruption. Will QR support BA this time?

The way things are developing in the Gulf, I don't see QR having any other use for tthose A320s in the immediate future ...

[wiggy]

Will QR support BA this time?

As DR had said QR aren't exactly overstretched at home at the moment, and there's not exactly been a lot of public or political outrage expressed in the UK about what is going on.

I agree with Lordflasheart's observation but I'd be surprised if a paperwork issue was allowed to get in the way of continued wetleasing.

[PC767]

This strike is very easy to settle but BA are playing hardball. I spoke with a BA captain in the last few days who stated that BA's stance was unreasonable and unnecessary, unless one considers that BA's response isn't directed at MF crew. It's, he suggested, a clear signal to flight crew and other BA staff. There looms a pension issue, the closure of NAPS. BA have stated that the pension will be reviewed but all understand that reviewed means closed. I believe that approx 2000 pilots remain in NAPS, 8000 cabin crew and around 10,000 other staff (ground and engineers etc).
The MF dispute is potentially merely an Amuse Bouche to forward industrial relations.

[Reverserbucket]

Yes, indeed PC767, there is some concern among the European 'social partners' that although BA have followed due process in the lease application with the UK CAA, the DfT has been rather quick to approve it and anecdotally, I've heard that the EC is watching closely from the point of view of enabling EU registered AOC holders to wet lease capacity from non-community carriers on a regular or more organised basis. The BA arrangement could be seen as the thin end of the wedge perhaps. Although the duration of the lease is from the 1st to 16th July, "..additional periods, yet to be defined, for a maximum of two months" are described in the CAA's response to the DfT.

That said, this is peak season, BA did consult their usual home based ACMI suppliers and this lease application was only sought after BA was assured that there was insufficient capacity from these sources. QR are IAG shareholders and, with significant spare capacity currently, it made sense.

[davidjohnson6]

It would be pretty perverse for the EU to make it difficult for non-EU carriers to be used when insufficient EU aircraft were available.
That said, BA could have made an effort to lease maybe 1 EU aircraft (not just for a weekend but for more of the period of time), even if it was just political lip service to show they had tried

[KelvinD]

BA did make the effort. Twice. They leased a pair of A340 from Hi-Fly, CS-TQZ and 9H-JAI.