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Phantom/Buccaneer.

Old 21st Jan 2017, 00:45
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Phantom/Buccaneer.

I've just been reading a blurb about R.N. Phantoms. The claim is that the Phantom was the heaviest aircraft ever to be operated from an R.N. carrier. Heavier than a Buccaneer?
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 07:32
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Max take off weight of Phantom 56,000lbs ,empty weight 31,000lbs.
Max take off weight of Buccaneer 62,000lbs, empty weight 30,000lbs
So when empty the Phantom is heaviest.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 08:10
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And squeezing into third place just ahead of the Sea Vixen is the... Chinook. Later versions cleared to 50,000lb or about a ton more than the Vixen. Looks like the Bucc will keep top-spot even when the F-35B enters service.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 08:16
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Limitation would be catapult and arrester gear. Unlikely to fire either a Buccaneer or the other thing off a carrier at max weight. Hence the use of Sea Vixen and Buccaneer buddy refueling.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 09:18
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Even old-school steam catapults can actually handle much more than that, the USN C13-2 also used by the French can throw 80,000lb to 140 knots on a 300ft stroke. However the problem with the previous generation of RN carriers was that their cat-decks were too short, about half the length of the US contemporaries, hence the need for extending nose-gear to achieve high AoA on launch. They were basically wasting steam on each stroke.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 13:14
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Thanks folks.
StB. When you say "empty" I'm assuming devoid of crew, fuel and things that go whoosh or bang so for all practical porpoises the Buccaneer was the heavier.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 07:28
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Lots of good info on launching Buccaneers and Phantoms in Rowland White's great novel "Phoenix Squadron" which tells the story of the launch and recovery of two Buccaneers from Ark Royal as she steamed between the Bahamas and Bermuda to show a "presence" over the tiny outpost of British Honduras, later Belize, as Guatemalan paratroops threatened imminent invasion. Highly recommended.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 16:40
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Red: Indeed the empty weight is not deciding. You asked about operating...& without some motion lotion and pilot it ain't going to operate. However, what was the MTOW of each? Were either limited below structural max wt? Knowing nothing about catapult capacity and wind over the deck effect hence I ask the question.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 09:45
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Phoenix Squadron isn't a novel - it actually happened.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 15:02
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Thank you for pointing this out Captivep. I have checked with the Oxford Dictionary and by gum you are indeed correct. A novel is a fictitious tale in book form. And I just thought it was a "book". As you quite rightly point out it did actually happen. (I new that). Stonking good read.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 18:06
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Bucanneer

I have many happy memory about the buck. I was lucky enough to visit the Nimitz and the pilot who was doing our tour was asked "what plane would you like to have onboard?" He reply's " A buccaneer that can go supersonic". I remember a trip to Brough and they had sent out a brick on a test flight. XV350. We were waiting for it to return, it did, from between the two hangers we were standing between. Everyone hit the floor! It was never below 500 feet the pilot said! I think he might have been fibbing a bit. However I wouldn't have missed it for anything. My last little memoir is on the North Yorkshire Moor Railway. I was having a peep outside when a Buck flew past inverted! Yes, inverted! If you ever fancy seeing what this beast is capable of I'm sure online there is the film of one of them at Red Flag flying that low that it's kicking up dust!
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 18:21
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Remember fishing on a Tees Velley reservoir when a Buccaneer appeared over the Dam wall and flew the length of the water creating a deep trough and bow wave! Im not sure how high the dam is but the aircraft was below it until it appeared.
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Old 23rd Jan 2017, 18:31
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Originally Posted by Simplythebeast View Post
Remember fishing on a Tees Velley reservoir when a Buccaneer appeared over the Dam wall and flew the length of the water creating a deep trough and bow wave! Im not sure how high the dam is but the aircraft was below it until it appeared.
It would have been above 500 feet! Honestly! I can imagine it was an amazing experience. One of those I wish I had my camera ready moments because you know it's not going to happen again. Did they have a special type of pilots for Buccaneers?
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 00:15
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Originally Posted by Trent dayne View Post
I have many happy memory about the buck. I was lucky enough to visit the Nimitz and the pilot who was doing our tour was asked "what plane would you like to have onboard?" He reply's " A buccaneer that can go supersonic". I remember a trip to Brough and they had sent out a brick on a test flight. XV350. We were waiting for it to return, it did, from between the two hangers we were standing between. Everyone hit the floor! It was never below 500 feet the pilot said! I think he might have been fibbing a bit. However I wouldn't have missed it for anything. My last little memoir is on the North Yorkshire Moor Railway. I was having a peep outside when a Buck flew past inverted! Yes, inverted! If you ever fancy seeing what this beast is capable of I'm sure online there is the film of one of them at Red Flag flying that low that it's kicking up dust!




Ah, the fabled red flag film. I'm hoping that one day it will appear.
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Old 24th Jan 2017, 07:04
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Originally Posted by RedhillPhil View Post
Ah, the fabled red flag film. I'm hoping that one day it will appear.
I hope it will appear again. I've seen it once, a long time ago on film. It is amazing.
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