Excalibur Airways
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Excalibur Airways
It is around 6 years now since the spectacular demise of Excalibur.
The demise of this airline was again, another reminder of the power of the press and what they can do. However, in this case i got the chance to see the situation from "The other side", the side of the passengers and the press. you see, i was a passenger on the flight which triggered events, the MCO-MAN service where 90 passengers refused to reboard the DC10.
The outbound flight had been operated by lauda air 767 and was great! The inbound was the Excalibur (well, Skyjet) DC10. At the gate, beofre boarding we did watch 3 fire engines attend to the aircraft. when we did board, the plane was a state, ripped carpets, seats without fold-down trays etc. I was seated at the back of the aircraft where the light were continually flickering on and off, and the cabin crew could do nothing about it. When we began to taxi we DID smell burning and SOME smoke was een (the cabin didn't fill with smoke like some newspapers reported). Now my memory begins to fail me ( i was only 11 at the time, 17 now) but there was something to do with the cabin crew needed to open the rear door but couldnt, even with the help of some Pax!. In the end we all disembarked the aircraft and waited another 4 or so hours. We were told to re-board but all refused, then the captain appeared and the whole thing got quite heated, with security around etc. in the end we were told "board this plane or find your own way home". This tactic worked on many, and many peope boarded the plane, some crying etc, it was very emotional. in the end 90 were left, who still refused to board (including me, mum, dad and brother). the plane took off, we watched it, furthermore it had gone WITH our luggage!
the rest is history, after 36 hours Virgin flew us all home on 747 (great!), and after another 2 EVENTFULL weeks, Excalibur folded.
The collapse was a great deal down to the press, but this experienced taught me a lot. Sometimes you can't blame them for everything. As a passenger i saw the "other side". it was a terryfying experience for everyone, and EXC's attitude basically stank.
Since then i have learned that a few motnhs previous EXC had been taken over by some "cowboys" who didnt have a clue, hence the demise??
Anybody here care to comment? I know EXC were a good airline at one point. What was it like to work for them? especially near the end? Anybody else remember this incedent?
I am not here to bash excalibur or start any controversy, but i wopuld love to hear peoples comments, especially those who used to work for the airline.
thanks
Andrew (jmc757)
The demise of this airline was again, another reminder of the power of the press and what they can do. However, in this case i got the chance to see the situation from "The other side", the side of the passengers and the press. you see, i was a passenger on the flight which triggered events, the MCO-MAN service where 90 passengers refused to reboard the DC10.
The outbound flight had been operated by lauda air 767 and was great! The inbound was the Excalibur (well, Skyjet) DC10. At the gate, beofre boarding we did watch 3 fire engines attend to the aircraft. when we did board, the plane was a state, ripped carpets, seats without fold-down trays etc. I was seated at the back of the aircraft where the light were continually flickering on and off, and the cabin crew could do nothing about it. When we began to taxi we DID smell burning and SOME smoke was een (the cabin didn't fill with smoke like some newspapers reported). Now my memory begins to fail me ( i was only 11 at the time, 17 now) but there was something to do with the cabin crew needed to open the rear door but couldnt, even with the help of some Pax!. In the end we all disembarked the aircraft and waited another 4 or so hours. We were told to re-board but all refused, then the captain appeared and the whole thing got quite heated, with security around etc. in the end we were told "board this plane or find your own way home". This tactic worked on many, and many peope boarded the plane, some crying etc, it was very emotional. in the end 90 were left, who still refused to board (including me, mum, dad and brother). the plane took off, we watched it, furthermore it had gone WITH our luggage!
the rest is history, after 36 hours Virgin flew us all home on 747 (great!), and after another 2 EVENTFULL weeks, Excalibur folded.
The collapse was a great deal down to the press, but this experienced taught me a lot. Sometimes you can't blame them for everything. As a passenger i saw the "other side". it was a terryfying experience for everyone, and EXC's attitude basically stank.
Since then i have learned that a few motnhs previous EXC had been taken over by some "cowboys" who didnt have a clue, hence the demise??
Anybody here care to comment? I know EXC were a good airline at one point. What was it like to work for them? especially near the end? Anybody else remember this incedent?
I am not here to bash excalibur or start any controversy, but i wopuld love to hear peoples comments, especially those who used to work for the airline.
thanks
Andrew (jmc757)
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I started a thread on this very topic in March of 2001.
Sadly, I can't seem to find it now, as my 'post history' only goes back to June 2001...
Maybe someone stored it, and could repost???
Sadly, I can't seem to find it now, as my 'post history' only goes back to June 2001...
Maybe someone stored it, and could repost???
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This subject has been done a few times and goes back to early 2000.
However, if someone is interested enough just click on search and use Excalibur as your main name. Then through the magic of PPRuNe your particular genie will appear!
Damn clever I say.
PPRuNe Pop
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However, if someone is interested enough just click on search and use Excalibur as your main name. Then through the magic of PPRuNe your particular genie will appear!
Damn clever I say.
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Hi Andrew
Yes this subject has been covered before but your post made me sit back and realise it was six years ago this month.
To this day Excalibur was the best company I have ever worked for. They were a small company that had a wonderful quality - the staff that worked for them. From the pilots to the office staff there was a genuine feeling of teamwork. Unfortunately it was the employees that were to suffer the most with the awful experience of sudden redundancy.
Sadly they became a victim of some very unfortunate circumstances and obviously an element of poor management. The DC10 was late arriving resulting in huge costs of subchartering long haul flights. When the aircraft finally was delivered it was a very unreliable aeroplane. Globespan decided to cut there losses on Excalibur and pulled the plug on this once great airline on 26th June 1996 if i remember right .. the day England lost to Germany in Euro 96 .. what a shocking day, with the staff being made redundant the day before payday. No redundancy and no pay .... I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I feel for my industry colleagues when I hear of another airline failure .. ie Gill,British World. We eventually did get some redundancy through the government but not a lot. It wasn't particularly pleasant working there towards the end as you can see the writing on the wall and it is sad to see your company failing.
We have all moved on and everything teaches you a lesson. The lesson I learnt is that the airline industry is volatile and success can soon turn to failure. However, it is still the best job in the world and I am grateful for the chance to work with such wonderful people.
ES
Yes this subject has been covered before but your post made me sit back and realise it was six years ago this month.
To this day Excalibur was the best company I have ever worked for. They were a small company that had a wonderful quality - the staff that worked for them. From the pilots to the office staff there was a genuine feeling of teamwork. Unfortunately it was the employees that were to suffer the most with the awful experience of sudden redundancy.
Sadly they became a victim of some very unfortunate circumstances and obviously an element of poor management. The DC10 was late arriving resulting in huge costs of subchartering long haul flights. When the aircraft finally was delivered it was a very unreliable aeroplane. Globespan decided to cut there losses on Excalibur and pulled the plug on this once great airline on 26th June 1996 if i remember right .. the day England lost to Germany in Euro 96 .. what a shocking day, with the staff being made redundant the day before payday. No redundancy and no pay .... I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I feel for my industry colleagues when I hear of another airline failure .. ie Gill,British World. We eventually did get some redundancy through the government but not a lot. It wasn't particularly pleasant working there towards the end as you can see the writing on the wall and it is sad to see your company failing.
We have all moved on and everything teaches you a lesson. The lesson I learnt is that the airline industry is volatile and success can soon turn to failure. However, it is still the best job in the world and I am grateful for the chance to work with such wonderful people.
ES
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jmc757,
What a wonderful command of the English language you have, discounting any that really could only be typo's !
Just shows the power of the travelling public refusing to get onto
an aircraft that in their (uneducated re aviation) opinion was unsafe, indirectly brought about the demise of what seemed a good airline. Congratulations. And it got you what exactly, a few days extended stay in MCO, at your cost I hope, and a flight home
with Virgin the very same airline you could of used if you were'nt going cheap and using this charter. Congratulations again.
rt
What a wonderful command of the English language you have, discounting any that really could only be typo's !
Just shows the power of the travelling public refusing to get onto
an aircraft that in their (uneducated re aviation) opinion was unsafe, indirectly brought about the demise of what seemed a good airline. Congratulations. And it got you what exactly, a few days extended stay in MCO, at your cost I hope, and a flight home
with Virgin the very same airline you could of used if you were'nt going cheap and using this charter. Congratulations again.
rt
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Excalibur Cabin Crew
Excalibur was the first airline that I worked for,and without a doubt,the best.The cabin crew were amongst the finest around.It was a shame that the company ended as it did,and I dare say that if it was still going it would still have the same dedicated crew as we were then.Saying hello to any fellow crew members who happen to be reading at the moment.
HC
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Ditto with HC and Electric Sky - best airline i've ever worked for, nothing yet has come close...
6 years?? - now I feel old - It was a fantastic bunch of guys through out...great image, good fun and an incredibly high quality cabin service and crew training that incidently, someone from the CAA was still praising only 3 weeks ago..!
If I remember correctly ES, the letters about redundancy were given out on the day of the Christmas party ??!! Bloody good night at Jimmy Deans, i've never seen so many people party so hard!!!!! (only ever made it to 1 PPRuNe Bash!!)
I don't blame the management for all of it - I certainly don't blame our directors for selling to Globespan, I know all 5 of the directors had personal money in EXC and I do remember Capt H saying at one of the EMA base meetings that they had invested more money in the company than they all wanted too.
I prefer just to remember the good times - it was a pleasure going to work and i'm sure if any of the 5 directors are reading this, the "company X" employees posts prove they did the job ok..
Hope your ok HC...
Time for another re-union ES ?
Giggler!
6 years?? - now I feel old - It was a fantastic bunch of guys through out...great image, good fun and an incredibly high quality cabin service and crew training that incidently, someone from the CAA was still praising only 3 weeks ago..!
If I remember correctly ES, the letters about redundancy were given out on the day of the Christmas party ??!! Bloody good night at Jimmy Deans, i've never seen so many people party so hard!!!!! (only ever made it to 1 PPRuNe Bash!!)
I don't blame the management for all of it - I certainly don't blame our directors for selling to Globespan, I know all 5 of the directors had personal money in EXC and I do remember Capt H saying at one of the EMA base meetings that they had invested more money in the company than they all wanted too.
I prefer just to remember the good times - it was a pleasure going to work and i'm sure if any of the 5 directors are reading this, the "company X" employees posts prove they did the job ok..
Hope your ok HC...
Time for another re-union ES ?
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Uniform????
..........citadel,we really must stop meeting like this!!!!!!..........
Anyone arranging a get together for Excalibur please let me know.
I am fine oo7,text me when you get the chance. ..........
Crew giggles..........who recalls the 1st Mombassa trip?(skinny dippers united!!!!)
Where did all the MAN crews go to?rsvp
Anyone arranging a get together for Excalibur please let me know.
I am fine oo7,text me when you get the chance.
..........Crew giggles..........who recalls the 1st Mombassa trip?(skinny dippers united!!!!)
Where did all the MAN crews go to?rsvp
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JB007: If I remember correctly the major investors (owners) in Excalibur were 3i and Air Malta (before selling to Globespan), thus accordingly represented on the board of directors. Hardly "personal money" I would say.
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Jmc 757
“you see, i was a passenger on the flight”
in this case i got the chance to see the situation from "The other side",
“it was a terryfying experience for everyone, and EXC's attitude basically stank.”
“Now my memory begins to fail me ( i was only 11 at the time, 17 now)”
I feel that the passage of time may have distorted some of your observations and facts relating to Flight EXC 067, MCO-MAN on July 8th 1996.
The flight crew consisted of a Captain under training, the aircraft Commander, a Flight Engineer under training and the EXC Chief Flight Engineer.
Whilst preparing to board the aircraft the Cabin Manager reported to the flight deck a strange smell and accompanying haze in the rear cabin.
The four flight deck crew, cabin crew and British Airways ground engineers went to the rear cabin to investigate. The observations of the cabin crew proved correct, but the source could not be determined. As a precaution the Commander stopped the pre boarding preparation and requested all non crew members to leave the aircraft. He also asked for a fire truck to stand by the aircraft pending an investigation. ONE, not three Fire Trucks stood by. An APU oil leak contaminating the air conditioning was thought to be the problem. The APU was shut down and the FAINT smell and hardy discernable HAZE disappeared.
The BA engineer investigated, sourced the leak and declared the a/c serviceable, the commander requested the engineer to confirm that the ducting was clear of oil and that there was no prospect of contamination, an assurance was given. All passengers and bags were loaded.
The push back and start was normal, however when the air conditioning was put on the haze accompanied by a faint smell returned, the Cabin Manager reported this to the flight deck and the Commander decided to return to stand. The haze effect had been enhanced by the normal condensation which often occurs when the packs are put on in hot and humid conditions.
On return to stand the BA engineer advised the Commander that it would be easier for him to check the system if the passengers disembarked.
After further work was carried out to clean up the system the commander decided that he wanted to test the system and purge it before any passengers were boarded. The aircraft was taxied to H9 and an 85% power run was carried out, the three engineers and all the cabin crew were satisfied with the results One passenger described this as being an “aborted take-off from high speed” (on a taxiway)
As a result of what had happened the Commander went to the gate and, using the PA, spoke to the passengers as a group and also individually to explain exactly what had happened. Some of the passengers, having gained strength from alcohol, were rude and abusive, others discussed the situation in detail with the Commander.
The Commander made the statement that he valued his own life too much to embark on an aircraft that he was not 100% certain was safe.
Having determined that all the luggage had been through an x-ray he advised the passengers that to delay the flight to off load baggage would result in the crew going out of hours and that in the interests of the majority, 266, and the 365 waiting to fly from MAN to MCO the flight would depart with all the bags on board. It wasn’t a tactic, it was an honest attempt to communicate the full facts, standing in front of the passengers
Replaying the Sky News tape of the events reveals passengers interviewed on arrival at MAN, several comments along the lines of “I was ashamed to be British the way some of the passengers were behaving”. One passenger who stayed behind stated “ I am certain the aircraft is safe, but my children have been frightened by some of the wild statements made by some of these people”.
Jmc757, these are the facts, I was the Commander of EXC067. and there was another side which you did not see. But thank you for reminding us all of what an excellent airline Excalibur was for those of us who were privileged to work for it.
“you see, i was a passenger on the flight”
in this case i got the chance to see the situation from "The other side",
“it was a terryfying experience for everyone, and EXC's attitude basically stank.”
“Now my memory begins to fail me ( i was only 11 at the time, 17 now)”
I feel that the passage of time may have distorted some of your observations and facts relating to Flight EXC 067, MCO-MAN on July 8th 1996.
The flight crew consisted of a Captain under training, the aircraft Commander, a Flight Engineer under training and the EXC Chief Flight Engineer.
Whilst preparing to board the aircraft the Cabin Manager reported to the flight deck a strange smell and accompanying haze in the rear cabin.
The four flight deck crew, cabin crew and British Airways ground engineers went to the rear cabin to investigate. The observations of the cabin crew proved correct, but the source could not be determined. As a precaution the Commander stopped the pre boarding preparation and requested all non crew members to leave the aircraft. He also asked for a fire truck to stand by the aircraft pending an investigation. ONE, not three Fire Trucks stood by. An APU oil leak contaminating the air conditioning was thought to be the problem. The APU was shut down and the FAINT smell and hardy discernable HAZE disappeared.
The BA engineer investigated, sourced the leak and declared the a/c serviceable, the commander requested the engineer to confirm that the ducting was clear of oil and that there was no prospect of contamination, an assurance was given. All passengers and bags were loaded.
The push back and start was normal, however when the air conditioning was put on the haze accompanied by a faint smell returned, the Cabin Manager reported this to the flight deck and the Commander decided to return to stand. The haze effect had been enhanced by the normal condensation which often occurs when the packs are put on in hot and humid conditions.
On return to stand the BA engineer advised the Commander that it would be easier for him to check the system if the passengers disembarked.
After further work was carried out to clean up the system the commander decided that he wanted to test the system and purge it before any passengers were boarded. The aircraft was taxied to H9 and an 85% power run was carried out, the three engineers and all the cabin crew were satisfied with the results One passenger described this as being an “aborted take-off from high speed” (on a taxiway)
As a result of what had happened the Commander went to the gate and, using the PA, spoke to the passengers as a group and also individually to explain exactly what had happened. Some of the passengers, having gained strength from alcohol, were rude and abusive, others discussed the situation in detail with the Commander.
The Commander made the statement that he valued his own life too much to embark on an aircraft that he was not 100% certain was safe.
Having determined that all the luggage had been through an x-ray he advised the passengers that to delay the flight to off load baggage would result in the crew going out of hours and that in the interests of the majority, 266, and the 365 waiting to fly from MAN to MCO the flight would depart with all the bags on board. It wasn’t a tactic, it was an honest attempt to communicate the full facts, standing in front of the passengers
Replaying the Sky News tape of the events reveals passengers interviewed on arrival at MAN, several comments along the lines of “I was ashamed to be British the way some of the passengers were behaving”. One passenger who stayed behind stated “ I am certain the aircraft is safe, but my children have been frightened by some of the wild statements made by some of these people”.
Jmc757, these are the facts, I was the Commander of EXC067. and there was another side which you did not see. But thank you for reminding us all of what an excellent airline Excalibur was for those of us who were privileged to work for it.
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Robin Z,
You are quite correct - Air malta and 3i were the major investors, plus, as I stated, each director had personal money in the company....I was at the base meeting to hear it for myself!!!
You are quite correct - Air malta and 3i were the major investors, plus, as I stated, each director had personal money in the company....I was at the base meeting to hear it for myself!!!
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thanks for your reply Hugh! I do appreciate that there was another side to the story, and there is always two. As the one fire truck goes, i have a photo somewhere that defnitely has 2 on it, and one of the newspapers did report three, but minor details.
I appreciate that i was only 11 at the time and the six years have perhaps taken their toll on my memory. You must understand that the passengers confidence levels at this point were incredibly low. We hadn't flown out with Excalibur, we flew Lauda, although some poor people had to wait for a Tower747. returning, if it had only been the problems you described then perhaps many more would have flown; but then it wasn't just that. After the mess with the outbound flights, and the general interior state of the DC10 (flickering lights, seats without tray tables etc. Anyway, just more details) passengers confidence levels were not what they could be.
As for the "ashamed to be british" comments then yes fair enough, but those passengers were no where vear the back, where the problems were. Again there was another side; a cabin crew member was interviewed @ MAN and said "if i had been a passenger, then i wouldn't have flown", other passengers also said they only flew because they had no other means of getting home. Also, on board, one cabin crew members had been blatently worried by the problems hersef. If the crew were worried, what were we supposed to think? Some passengers were agressive, yes, but we all got tarnished with the same brush, which wasn't fair, as some just were genuinely concerned for the safety of themselves and, more importantly, their families. My parents say that they perhaps would have flown on that DC-10 had it not been for me and my younger brother being present.
Anyway, i appreciate your posting. We were in no way 'out to get' Excalibur, or in no way just causing a fuss to get a free flight with VS, or even a few days in MCO (i'd rather be in my own bed than sleeping on MCO's check-in hall floor!). We flew with EXC upon recommendation (friends had flown A320), and from what I here they were a great airline, it is a shame things went wrong.
I hope everything went well for you, and all your colleagues at Excalibur, no-one likes to see anyone out of work, and that's not what we wanted, you must appreciate that.
Thanks again.
jmc757
I appreciate that i was only 11 at the time and the six years have perhaps taken their toll on my memory. You must understand that the passengers confidence levels at this point were incredibly low. We hadn't flown out with Excalibur, we flew Lauda, although some poor people had to wait for a Tower747. returning, if it had only been the problems you described then perhaps many more would have flown; but then it wasn't just that. After the mess with the outbound flights, and the general interior state of the DC10 (flickering lights, seats without tray tables etc. Anyway, just more details) passengers confidence levels were not what they could be.
As for the "ashamed to be british" comments then yes fair enough, but those passengers were no where vear the back, where the problems were. Again there was another side; a cabin crew member was interviewed @ MAN and said "if i had been a passenger, then i wouldn't have flown", other passengers also said they only flew because they had no other means of getting home. Also, on board, one cabin crew members had been blatently worried by the problems hersef. If the crew were worried, what were we supposed to think? Some passengers were agressive, yes, but we all got tarnished with the same brush, which wasn't fair, as some just were genuinely concerned for the safety of themselves and, more importantly, their families. My parents say that they perhaps would have flown on that DC-10 had it not been for me and my younger brother being present.
Anyway, i appreciate your posting. We were in no way 'out to get' Excalibur, or in no way just causing a fuss to get a free flight with VS, or even a few days in MCO (i'd rather be in my own bed than sleeping on MCO's check-in hall floor!). We flew with EXC upon recommendation (friends had flown A320), and from what I here they were a great airline, it is a shame things went wrong.
I hope everything went well for you, and all your colleagues at Excalibur, no-one likes to see anyone out of work, and that's not what we wanted, you must appreciate that.
Thanks again.
jmc757
Last edited by jmc757; 13th Jul 2002 at 12:39.
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Hugh,
Now I've heard the details it sounds like an extremely well and professionally managed situation in what must have been a very trying situation. Have fond memories of EXC, shame those above us didn't run things along similair lines.
Now I've heard the details it sounds like an extremely well and professionally managed situation in what must have been a very trying situation. Have fond memories of EXC, shame those above us didn't run things along similair lines.
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If I may steer this thread on a slightly different path.
In the recent IPA newsletter it says that Excalibur Airways are expecting four A320s in Spring 2003 and they will be looking for crews. Is this the same Excalibur and if so, is there a web-site? I'd like to find out a little more about the company and see if my CV would be welcome.
In the recent IPA newsletter it says that Excalibur Airways are expecting four A320s in Spring 2003 and they will be looking for crews. Is this the same Excalibur and if so, is there a web-site? I'd like to find out a little more about the company and see if my CV would be welcome.
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this is the first i've heard of it, but it would be pretty cool if it was!!!!
I'm 99% sure that there are no other airlines about called excalibur, and A320s is what the old one had so might well be!
Maybe you should start a new post in News and Rumours forum, to attract more attention........?
I'm 99% sure that there are no other airlines about called excalibur, and A320s is what the old one had so might well be!
Maybe you should start a new post in News and Rumours forum, to attract more attention........?
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Yes, I think that I should read these things a little more closely. I feel (no in fact I am) a ********.
I shall now go and get my coat.
I shall now go and get my coat.