Use of Cockpit Jump Seat
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Use of Cockpit Jump Seat
This article appeared in the SCMP today 06Mar15:
Video has emerged of a Cathay Pacific flight landing at Hong Kong International airport said to have been filmed by a passenger from inside the cockpit.
The footage, which shows an onboard countdown before the plane lands, circulated online after it was posted along with six photos to the Weibo account of Ada Ng Tsz-yan, a young woman who said the pilot allowed her to sit in the cabin.
Ng said in a message dated March 3 that the flight was full and she was fortunate to have been allowed by the captain to sit behind him in the cockpit.
“Experiencing the take-off and landing inside the cockpit is very cool,” she said.
She also said that as long as you're healthy, and you're the immediate family member of an airline employee, you can also sit in the cockpit. However, she did not specify if she was a family member or not.
A spokeswoman from Cathay Pacific's corporate comunications department confirmed this in a statement.
“Cathay Pacific permits approved persons under the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department guidelines to apply for the use of the jump seat," the spokeswoman said. "Under the guidelines, stringent qualification requirements and access procedures are stipulated. Eligible applicants include Cathay Pacific employees and their immediate family members.”
One photo, which shows a ticket bearing Ng’s name, suggested the trip was Cathay Pacific flight 465 from Taipei to Hong Kong on February 26, a route usually flown on a Boeing 777-300.
Other photos showed a view of what is believed to be a runway at Chek Lap Kok airport, lined with other planes to one side.
Heightened security measures in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States have meant greater restrictions on who is allowed to access the flight deck.
Comment: I am amazed that an airline could operate this policy. Aircrew are properly vetted, family members are not. An the word "include" suggests that other categories of unspecified persons are allowed access to the flight deck. I would hope that any captain would not permit this on his aircraft despite the policy and I would like to see HK CAD and Cathay cancel it.
Video has emerged of a Cathay Pacific flight landing at Hong Kong International airport said to have been filmed by a passenger from inside the cockpit.
The footage, which shows an onboard countdown before the plane lands, circulated online after it was posted along with six photos to the Weibo account of Ada Ng Tsz-yan, a young woman who said the pilot allowed her to sit in the cabin.
Ng said in a message dated March 3 that the flight was full and she was fortunate to have been allowed by the captain to sit behind him in the cockpit.
“Experiencing the take-off and landing inside the cockpit is very cool,” she said.
She also said that as long as you're healthy, and you're the immediate family member of an airline employee, you can also sit in the cockpit. However, she did not specify if she was a family member or not.
A spokeswoman from Cathay Pacific's corporate comunications department confirmed this in a statement.
“Cathay Pacific permits approved persons under the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department guidelines to apply for the use of the jump seat," the spokeswoman said. "Under the guidelines, stringent qualification requirements and access procedures are stipulated. Eligible applicants include Cathay Pacific employees and their immediate family members.”
One photo, which shows a ticket bearing Ng’s name, suggested the trip was Cathay Pacific flight 465 from Taipei to Hong Kong on February 26, a route usually flown on a Boeing 777-300.
Other photos showed a view of what is believed to be a runway at Chek Lap Kok airport, lined with other planes to one side.
Heightened security measures in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States have meant greater restrictions on who is allowed to access the flight deck.
Comment: I am amazed that an airline could operate this policy. Aircrew are properly vetted, family members are not. An the word "include" suggests that other categories of unspecified persons are allowed access to the flight deck. I would hope that any captain would not permit this on his aircraft despite the policy and I would like to see HK CAD and Cathay cancel it.
Last edited by GunpowderPlod; 6th Mar 2015 at 08:01.
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Nice to see sexism is alive and well here. The assumption that a captain is Male is pretty poor, and reflects badly on the poster. Also why trust the judgement of someone that can only envisage a male captain? Blinkered, reactionary thinking:
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Gunpowderplod,
as a Captain, I will allow whoever I deem suitable on MY flightdeck, as long as it is within the airline's policy.
that indeed means that I might allow family members of my crew to sit on the jumpseat, or colleagues, or obviously my own family.
Jumpseaters have been allowed for decades, without problems.
The 9/11 hijackings had nothing to do with jumpseaters.
If you do not like this, may I suggest using your car, a bus, train or ship for your next travel, and do not lecture me nor my colleagues on Flightsafety and security.
Please note that the PP in PPrune stands for Professional Pilots and NOT for Professional Prats.
as a Captain, I will allow whoever I deem suitable on MY flightdeck, as long as it is within the airline's policy.
that indeed means that I might allow family members of my crew to sit on the jumpseat, or colleagues, or obviously my own family.
Jumpseaters have been allowed for decades, without problems.
The 9/11 hijackings had nothing to do with jumpseaters.
If you do not like this, may I suggest using your car, a bus, train or ship for your next travel, and do not lecture me nor my colleagues on Flightsafety and security.
Please note that the PP in PPrune stands for Professional Pilots and NOT for Professional Prats.
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This happens all over the world. Employees, family members and even people from the regulators themselves.
I think most captains would like to see it go back to the way it was, when it was up to their judgement who they let in, and that could be anyone.
The fact that the flight was full is a red herring, means nothing. She had a boarding pass with a seat in business class.
I think most captains would like to see it go back to the way it was, when it was up to their judgement who they let in, and that could be anyone.
The fact that the flight was full is a red herring, means nothing. She had a boarding pass with a seat in business class.
Totally agree with the responses above.
Long ago my instructor was captain and I was passenger on a flight into Kai Tak, and he let me take the jump seat for the approach: a valuable and never-to-be-forgotten experience.
Long ago my instructor was captain and I was passenger on a flight into Kai Tak, and he let me take the jump seat for the approach: a valuable and never-to-be-forgotten experience.
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highflyer40
Her boarding pass was for the jumpseat, as indicated by the JMP where the seat number would normally go. The two pen lines on the boarding pass indicate it is a staff ticket so she would have been an authorized person to occupy the jumpseat. The flight was full as if there was any spare seat she would have had it.
The fact that the flight was full is a red herring, means nothing. She had a boarding pass with a seat in business class.
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Gunpowderplod,
as a Captain, I will allow whoever I deem suitable on MY flightdeck, as long as it is within the airline's policy.
that indeed means that I might allow family members of my crew to sit on the jumpseat, or colleagues, or obviously my own family.
Jumpseaters have been allowed for decades, without problems.
The 9/11 hijackings had nothing to do with jumpseaters.
If you do not like this, may I suggest using your car, a bus, train or ship for your next travel, and do not lecture me nor my colleagues on Flightsafety and security.
Please note that the PP in PPRuNe stands for Professional Pilots and NOT for Professional Prats.
as a Captain, I will allow whoever I deem suitable on MY flightdeck, as long as it is within the airline's policy.
that indeed means that I might allow family members of my crew to sit on the jumpseat, or colleagues, or obviously my own family.
Jumpseaters have been allowed for decades, without problems.
The 9/11 hijackings had nothing to do with jumpseaters.
If you do not like this, may I suggest using your car, a bus, train or ship for your next travel, and do not lecture me nor my colleagues on Flightsafety and security.
Please note that the PP in PPRuNe stands for Professional Pilots and NOT for Professional Prats.
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I am amazed that an airline could operate this policy. Aircrew are properly vetted, family members are not.
I'd love to see this thread moved to Spectators balcony
GunpowderPlod makes a lot of interesting suggestions to improve airline safety. Here's another favorite of mine:
There should also be a third person on the FD so that there can always be two on the FD at all times. This 3rd person could be security instead of FC if necessary.
I suggest the 3rd person on the flight deck should be recruited from airport security screeners, they are properly vetted...
Last edited by deptrai; 6th Mar 2015 at 09:37.
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Personally, I believe it is safer, from a security point of view, to have a family member on the flight deck than in the back with all the terrorists.
I think you will find that many pilots might be inclined to open the cockpit door if they were shown the door camera view of their spouse or child with a knife to their throat.
I think you will find that many pilots might be inclined to open the cockpit door if they were shown the door camera view of their spouse or child with a knife to their throat.
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@despigue!
Captain, sir! I agree with you!! While one obviously cannot grant that access in the U.S., on flights that do not touch U.S. soil, you (and your company) remain in control of your aircraft. The U.S. has some legitimate issues about flights to/from their ground, but otherwise should not be dictating policy to anyone. Yes, I'm an Amerikan!
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Humble Passenger
My apologies for not using an existing thread: Question Flight Deck Access for passangers which I see has a majority of rational comments as opposed to the mostly rabid reactions here from people who are supposed to be professional pilots?
From further research, I see that there is no internationally standardised policy when I naively assumed that flight deck security would be paramount and would err at all times on the side of caution.
Thank you and goodnight.
From further research, I see that there is no internationally standardised policy when I naively assumed that flight deck security would be paramount and would err at all times on the side of caution.
Thank you and goodnight.
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Not Wrong, Sir
@0ldaircrew: Like all of us, I'd hate to see that situation. I don't even want to think about how I might react. Frightening.
Very rare that my partner flies my flights; when so, he keeps to himself, never makes the link to the flight deck and knows better. If any FA's know, they don't say anything to anyone and hell no, my partner is never admitted to the cockpit during flight. Never!! Complicated?
Figure it out...
Very rare that my partner flies my flights; when so, he keeps to himself, never makes the link to the flight deck and knows better. If any FA's know, they don't say anything to anyone and hell no, my partner is never admitted to the cockpit during flight. Never!! Complicated?
Figure it out...
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From further research, I see that there is no internationally standardised policy when I naively assumed that flight deck security would be paramount and would err at all times on the side of caution
Most airlines in more enlightened parts of the world have a policy of allocating available jump-seats to staff on standby tickets on a full flight, even after post911. Also it is the expectation that own staff on confirmed tickets (duty travel) would take a jump-seat on a full flight rather than deny boarding to a fare paying passenger. On the other hand putting revenue customers on a jump-seat is an absolute no-no. At carriers operating in happier environments it is at the full discretion of the PIC on who is permitted to sit on the cockpit jump-seat(s) provided they meet policy requirements. From a security perspective it is in fact better to have the jump-seat down and occupied to block cockpit access. My own first flight at the age of six was on a cockpit j/s, I'm really sorry that today's mass hysteria denies much of this opportunity to todays' kids and future aviators.
Last edited by andrasz; 6th Mar 2015 at 10:29.
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I flew a jump-seat on a short sector in the 80s. I was airline staff, but not that airline's. It allowed me to get home, and back to work the next day.
I loved the experience and had a good rapport with the crew. I learned a great deal just from observing.
The passenger in question here was clearly travelling on a staff standby ticket. The captain was in agreement and it was in accordance with company policy.
Perhaps this should be moved to the breastfeeding in public thread in JB ... (where a few want the rest of the world to do it their way, just because)
I loved the experience and had a good rapport with the crew. I learned a great deal just from observing.
The passenger in question here was clearly travelling on a staff standby ticket. The captain was in agreement and it was in accordance with company policy.
Perhaps this should be moved to the breastfeeding in public thread in JB ... (where a few want the rest of the world to do it their way, just because)
Too bloody right. Back in more enlightened times in the 20th century I used to fly all around NZ in airliner cockpits because I used to ask nicely if I could travel up there (while a paying passenger) and in many cases, my request was granted by the captain. I even flew a couple of trans-Tasman flights from NZ to Australia in the cockpit after asking nicely. On one of those occasions, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the Captain was my cousin (who I knew was a captain for Air NZ, but wasn't aware he was captain on that flight until I entered the cockpit).
However, since 9/11, I've never asked, because I haven't wanted to put pressure on flight deck crews.
However, since 9/11, I've never asked, because I haven't wanted to put pressure on flight deck crews.
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agreed, andrasz, and
I fully agree with you too, A and C. Yet there could be a somewhat more rational additional explanation for some of the rigid post 911 security measures than just politicians and bureaucrats demonstrating that they are "doing something". The ban on cockpit crew carrying liquids etc will prevent uninformed members of the public from reporting "terrorist" threats when they see a pilot with a yoghurt passing through security, and not allowing family members in cockpit jump seats will prevent uninformed passengers from phoning in unnecessary "terrorist" threats. With a lot of goodwill, there may be a tiny bit of rationality, some measures may be somewhat helpful to calm down SLF on the verge of panic (such as the OP?)
The ban on persons in the flight deck in some states is just headlining by those in Govenment
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What a hysterical rant. Security is improved by having a loved one on the jumpseat - first, they impede the entrance of anyone who gets through the door, second, they can't be a hostage if they're in the cockpit, and third, those rare events of pilot suicide may have been prevented if a family member had been aboard. Maybe it should be mandatory for pilots' partners to accompany them at least on the nice night stops?
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Many moons ago when I was young I sat on the flight deck of a 707 doing the chequer board approach to Kai Tak.
The captain was my step father and that fantastic experience was one of the reasons I enjoyed a long and happy career in aviation.
The captain was my step father and that fantastic experience was one of the reasons I enjoyed a long and happy career in aviation.