Bombardier C Series first flight this morning
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There aren't any.
CS100 vs Q400 (figures sourced from wikipedia.)
Length: 114ft/107ft
Seats: 110/80
Price US: $62m/$27m
Range: 5,500Km/2,500km
Cruise: 447kt/360kt
Payload: 14,500kg/8,600kg
And the best bit:
Take off run @ MTOW: 1,500m/1,400m
Looks like the writing is on the wall for big passenger turboprops as turbojets get even more powerful and even more efficient.
Last edited by cattletruck; 17th Sep 2013 at 10:01. Reason: Thanks Cough for pointing out the wrong figure. Now corrected.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bombardier Q400 Speed:
Q400 Max Cruise Speed: 360 kts (knots), 414 mph, 667 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Q400 High Speed Cruise: 349 kts (knots), 402 mph, 646 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Q400 Long Range Cruise Speed: 287 kts (knots), 330 mph, 532 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Bombardier Q400 Specifications - Dimensions | Sun Airlines
Q400 Max Cruise Speed: 360 kts (knots), 414 mph, 667 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Q400 High Speed Cruise: 349 kts (knots), 402 mph, 646 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Q400 Long Range Cruise Speed: 287 kts (knots), 330 mph, 532 km/h (Kilometers per Hour)
Bombardier Q400 Specifications - Dimensions | Sun Airlines
I thought the Dash 8 came close
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: NE Surrey, UK
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That nose
787 style nose/cockpit.
Dornier 728 style nose/cockpit. Designed at a time when Boeing still did the Sonic Cruiser and 787 was not even talked about...
Dornier 728 style nose/cockpit. Designed at a time when Boeing still did the Sonic Cruiser and 787 was not even talked about...
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I note that Embraer already have about the same number of orders for their Ejet 2.0 as Bombardier have for the Cs.
It's a nice looking aeroplane and I'm looking forward to becoming intimate with it over the next few years but I wonder if it will make any money with such stiff competition from Brazil.
It's a nice looking aeroplane and I'm looking forward to becoming intimate with it over the next few years but I wonder if it will make any money with such stiff competition from Brazil.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deSitter
and the 787, once debugged, is sure to have a huge advantage over the A350.
Erm, have you got any facts to back this pretty big statement up?
Originally Posted by deSitter
and the 787, once debugged, is sure to have a huge advantage over the A350.
Erm, have you got any facts to back this pretty big statement up?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: here and there
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
deSitter,
I'm afraid I do not share your idea of the freight market. Times are going to get very tough it that arena I feel. Here is a report on it, a few months old granted but with plenty of widebody passenger jets still being delivered there must be a huge amount of spare belly capacity which is subsidized by the passengers themselves.
Anyhow good luck to Bombardier on this one, looks great. I only hope it lives up to expectation.
I'm afraid I do not share your idea of the freight market. Times are going to get very tough it that arena I feel. Here is a report on it, a few months old granted but with plenty of widebody passenger jets still being delivered there must be a huge amount of spare belly capacity which is subsidized by the passengers themselves.
Anyhow good luck to Bombardier on this one, looks great. I only hope it lives up to expectation.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: what U.S. calls ´old Europe´
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No doubt, the Comet was a real beauty of its time, and the nose even is for todays standards. But the overall window design is quite different.
Dornier 728 Nose
Comet Nose
However, it seems like designers have re-discovered the power of beauty... A beautiful aircraft saves a lot of money for PR campaigns. And the CSeries nose is beautiful.
Dornier 728 Nose
Comet Nose
However, it seems like designers have re-discovered the power of beauty... A beautiful aircraft saves a lot of money for PR campaigns. And the CSeries nose is beautiful.
the 787, once debugged, is sure to have a huge advantage over the A350
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 3,093
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I'd be inclined to leave deSitter to his kvetch. It's a little sad that when a new short-hauler from a new (well, sort-of) manufacturer takes to the sky for the first time, all some people can do is try to turn it into an excuse to bash one of the others.
With the big two duking it out and occasionally over-reaching, I think it's a great thing that some new blood is coming into the market and giving them both something to think about.
With the big two duking it out and occasionally over-reaching, I think it's a great thing that some new blood is coming into the market and giving them both something to think about.
Last edited by DozyWannabe; 18th Sep 2013 at 17:10.
She looks right, here's hoping she flies right and turns out to be the darling of frugality we haven been told she is. This has far wider implications than only BBD, as the GTF engine will power a long list of upcoming new aircraft - not least of which is the A320neo series.
Coming from Murrica by any chance?
The A320neo is to A what the 737 is to B. The neo has outsold the MAX 3 to 1 and has converted multiple carriers from A to B. The MAX has converted one airline.
The 777 has sold 1470 copies and has a backlog of around 339, split over the 77W, 77L and 77F - the vast majority being 77W. The 330 has sold 1256 copies with a backlog of 248, 2/3rds of which is for the -300. The 340 has sold 377 copies, with zero in backlog. 1256 + 377 is still, however, more than 1470.
The 787 is a class smaller than the 350, which explains why the 350 has more or less put the current 777 line to bed (77W sells like hotcakes cause the 350-1000 won't be out till 2017) and forced B to develop the 777X.
Apart from that, your arguments are quite sound.
I think this is worse for Airbus than for Boeing. The A320 is their meat and potatoes and offsets the likely never-to-be-recouped cost of the A380. The 777 has it all over the A340 and A330 and the 787, once debugged, is sure to have a huge advantage over the A350. Boeing can afford competition in the 737 sector but Airbus cannot in the A320 sector. It's good to have a third player again!
The A320neo is to A what the 737 is to B. The neo has outsold the MAX 3 to 1 and has converted multiple carriers from A to B. The MAX has converted one airline.
The 777 has sold 1470 copies and has a backlog of around 339, split over the 77W, 77L and 77F - the vast majority being 77W. The 330 has sold 1256 copies with a backlog of 248, 2/3rds of which is for the -300. The 340 has sold 377 copies, with zero in backlog. 1256 + 377 is still, however, more than 1470.
The 787 is a class smaller than the 350, which explains why the 350 has more or less put the current 777 line to bed (77W sells like hotcakes cause the 350-1000 won't be out till 2017) and forced B to develop the 777X.
Apart from that, your arguments are quite sound.
This is fun!
4 years late, huge PR embarresment, 3 months grounding, PR disaster, continuing reliability issues, customers getting publicly upset, projected forward loss even at 870 orders. No plans made public amount the possibility of a freighter, serious question marks over the load carrying structure (remember the 777 had to have it's CFRP floor replaced in order to work as a freighter), and UPS have not made a single utterance about their future willingness to buy much of anything, least of all something that doesn't exist. FedEx just bought a bunch of 767s, and most 744Fs are likely to either not be replaced or replaced by 77Fs.
Where you are right, is when it comes to Airbus and their attitude to freighters. They never really 'got them', but for reasons I am rather certain are much distanced from what you may think.
Three year head-start, nearly 1000 orders, certain to have a popular cargo version (A350F est. 2020 minimum and probably not at all). UPS are likely to replace their 767s with 787s. Fed-Ex is committed to the 777F. Existing 747-400 freighters will certainly go 747-8F by and large. Airbus made a fundamental error by ignoring and/or botching the cargo market. My opinion.
Where you are right, is when it comes to Airbus and their attitude to freighters. They never really 'got them', but for reasons I am rather certain are much distanced from what you may think.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Comet nose in wind tunnel testing was proven to be the optimum shape for aerodynamic efficiency and cockpit airflow noise reduction, therefore the C Series was designed with that in mind. There is no coincidence or theft in its shape. It is intentional.
If you take the Comet, the B787, and the C Series nose profiles you will see the striking similarities.
The C Series has no cockpit side windows that open, only a hatch like other Bombardier aircraft.
Re-engined A and B aeroplanes were the cheapest and quickest answer to Bombardier's all new narrow body. If Bombardier's C series sales gain momentum, some A and B buyers may be sorely disappointed they missed out round about 2018-2020 when most of these new (modified?) A and B narrow bodies get delivered.
Fuel savings discussions may be somewhat muted by the price of a barrel of oil around the same 2018-2020 entry into service date.
We'll see.
Congrats to Bombardier.
Willie
If you take the Comet, the B787, and the C Series nose profiles you will see the striking similarities.
The C Series has no cockpit side windows that open, only a hatch like other Bombardier aircraft.
Re-engined A and B aeroplanes were the cheapest and quickest answer to Bombardier's all new narrow body. If Bombardier's C series sales gain momentum, some A and B buyers may be sorely disappointed they missed out round about 2018-2020 when most of these new (modified?) A and B narrow bodies get delivered.
Fuel savings discussions may be somewhat muted by the price of a barrel of oil around the same 2018-2020 entry into service date.
We'll see.
Congrats to Bombardier.
Willie
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 18th Sep 2013 at 18:59.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 59
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While the ac is a great milestone for them, it's the P1000G GTF that is really significant for aviation.
In reality, I was not all that impressed with the wing design of this ac. While the engines are really far forward, which will really help, the engines appear to be far too large for this ac, and I note quite a bit of ancient technology in the design of the wing and other areas.
The tail of this ac is really odd to me as well...
Edit: SMT. in regards to UPS, you should note that they have contracted with FedEx to sort and move their packages. I would expect to not see too much moving forward with the UPS air fleet, perhaps only in areas where FedEx does not fly...
In reality, I was not all that impressed with the wing design of this ac. While the engines are really far forward, which will really help, the engines appear to be far too large for this ac, and I note quite a bit of ancient technology in the design of the wing and other areas.
The tail of this ac is really odd to me as well...
Edit: SMT. in regards to UPS, you should note that they have contracted with FedEx to sort and move their packages. I would expect to not see too much moving forward with the UPS air fleet, perhaps only in areas where FedEx does not fly...
Last edited by underfire; 18th Sep 2013 at 20:02.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: what U.S. calls ´old Europe´
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Comet nose in wind tunnel testing was proven to be the optimum shape for aerodynamic efficiency and cockpit airflow noise reduction, therefore the C Series was designed with that in mind.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The engines appear to be too large? Geared engines will have even bigger fans/N1's then the current generation.
The new engines will look larger, just like the fans looked larger than the pure jets, high bypass looked bigger than the fan jets, etc, etc.
The new engines will look larger, just like the fans looked larger than the pure jets, high bypass looked bigger than the fan jets, etc, etc.