Airtours captain sacked for flyby
Hi Wobs) Bet you never got up to antics like these in your pinging machine- give me a call one day. Ex Suad/Deb.
Safer than Circling Approaches?
I'm wondering if circling approaches are more hazardous, especially if you lose the threshold and have to do a miss.
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This doesn't have any connection with a circling approach, when the gear, and most of the flap, are set.
280 knots, clean, at 50 ft, and with company passengers on board might reasonably be seen as a cause for concern.
280 knots, clean, at 50 ft, and with company passengers on board might reasonably be seen as a cause for concern.
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Without wishing to draw too much attention to my age,I recall a Trident doing a fairly spirited flypast at Booker (late 1960's)presumably with the approval and assistance of LHR ATC as it was a scheduled service.An account appeared in the newspapers as it generated some comment from a number of the passengers.
Anyone with a better memory care to comment?
Anyone with a better memory care to comment?
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>>That sort of exhibition flying is best left alone until the week of one's retirement.<<
From www.avweb.com :
AA Captain Busted For Buzzing With A Boeing
Looks like American Airlines Captain Clifford Johnson is being hung out to dry for an alleged "buzzing" incident last February 16 [1999]. Capt. Johnson was PIC on a brand-new Boeing 777 being delivered to Miami when he made a few low passes near his home at the Spruce Creek Fly-in, a well-known aviation community in Florida. Although American backed up Johnson at the time -- saying that the maneuvers had been cleared in advance -- the carrier has since changed its tune and seemingly thrown him to the wolves at the FAA. Also at issue is whether there was a flight attendant aboard to say "buh-bye" to some 21 passengers -- mostly AA employees and corporate guests -- aboard the non-rev flight. Johnson, 59, and a pilot with American for 33 years, has an otherwise unblemished record.
_________________________________________________
The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has proposed substantial fines and certificate suspensions for at least two of the participants in a formation flight staged between a passenger-carrying Northwest Airlines 747 and the Collings Foundation B-24 bomber last summer [1999]. The airliner's captain, who was flying his last flight before retirement, had pre-arranged the formation, and Northwest had approved it. The FAA, however, took a dim view of the proceedings and has begun an investigation into the matter.
http://www.warbirdalley.com/archive.htm
From www.avweb.com :
AA Captain Busted For Buzzing With A Boeing
Looks like American Airlines Captain Clifford Johnson is being hung out to dry for an alleged "buzzing" incident last February 16 [1999]. Capt. Johnson was PIC on a brand-new Boeing 777 being delivered to Miami when he made a few low passes near his home at the Spruce Creek Fly-in, a well-known aviation community in Florida. Although American backed up Johnson at the time -- saying that the maneuvers had been cleared in advance -- the carrier has since changed its tune and seemingly thrown him to the wolves at the FAA. Also at issue is whether there was a flight attendant aboard to say "buh-bye" to some 21 passengers -- mostly AA employees and corporate guests -- aboard the non-rev flight. Johnson, 59, and a pilot with American for 33 years, has an otherwise unblemished record.
_________________________________________________
The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has proposed substantial fines and certificate suspensions for at least two of the participants in a formation flight staged between a passenger-carrying Northwest Airlines 747 and the Collings Foundation B-24 bomber last summer [1999]. The airliner's captain, who was flying his last flight before retirement, had pre-arranged the formation, and Northwest had approved it. The FAA, however, took a dim view of the proceedings and has begun an investigation into the matter.
http://www.warbirdalley.com/archive.htm
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A few years back a DC10 on T/O at HNL, destination
ORD asked ATC for a "beach departure" at 500' agl.
ATC approved and the a/c flew down Waikiki Beach.
Months later after the Captain retired he got a
forwarded letter from his airline with pictures
taken from a beach hotel. In the pictures you
could see the top sides of both wings, it looked
more like 50-100' afl. Also, on the TV last
Sunday, the Ft. Lauderdale AIR N SEA show had a
B777 fly along the beach approx 200' agl.
ORD asked ATC for a "beach departure" at 500' agl.
ATC approved and the a/c flew down Waikiki Beach.
Months later after the Captain retired he got a
forwarded letter from his airline with pictures
taken from a beach hotel. In the pictures you
could see the top sides of both wings, it looked
more like 50-100' afl. Also, on the TV last
Sunday, the Ft. Lauderdale AIR N SEA show had a
B777 fly along the beach approx 200' agl.
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sdac:
Your right 280 knots at fifty feet would be exceeding the speed limit under 10,000 feet....
Very unprofessional.
...................................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Your right 280 knots at fifty feet would be exceeding the speed limit under 10,000 feet....
Very unprofessional.
...................................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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pax anglia,
Yes, you are right, he said, showing his age as well
I think it was 1968 or so at Booker. A BEA Trident made a low approach and GA instead of continuing to hold while waiting to get into LHR on a revenue flight. And then as I was leaving on the road just to the east of threshold of 25, a BOAC VC-10 made an even lower approach and GA - about 100' over the road.
At the same airshow, I remember a spectacular display by the CFS Ternhill Bell 47 team and also the ultimate PA announcement: "Would Mr. R-----d F----y please return to his Spitfire?"
Yes, you are right, he said, showing his age as well
I think it was 1968 or so at Booker. A BEA Trident made a low approach and GA instead of continuing to hold while waiting to get into LHR on a revenue flight. And then as I was leaving on the road just to the east of threshold of 25, a BOAC VC-10 made an even lower approach and GA - about 100' over the road. At the same airshow, I remember a spectacular display by the CFS Ternhill Bell 47 team and also the ultimate PA announcement: "Would Mr. R-----d F----y please return to his Spitfire?"
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51585
Seems as if there is a little bit of contradiction in this topic.
I still vividly remember observing a BA Concorde performing after-burner turns at an airshow at Duxford whilst full of punters en-route to Aberdeen. This was in the summer of 1985 (?)
Said Concorde arrived into the circuit and competed for attention and drama with a similar type display carried out by an RAF Lightning.
The punters then continued to Aberdeen, enjoyed lunch and a Mach run down the North Sea, and finished off by repeating the display at Duxford en-route to Heathrow.
To cap it all the conditions were very barely VMC!
I have met several Concorde pilots, and to the best of my knowlege none of them can, in spite of rumour to the contrary, walk on water.
I still vividly remember observing a BA Concorde performing after-burner turns at an airshow at Duxford whilst full of punters en-route to Aberdeen. This was in the summer of 1985 (?)
Said Concorde arrived into the circuit and competed for attention and drama with a similar type display carried out by an RAF Lightning.
The punters then continued to Aberdeen, enjoyed lunch and a Mach run down the North Sea, and finished off by repeating the display at Duxford en-route to Heathrow.
To cap it all the conditions were very barely VMC!
I have met several Concorde pilots, and to the best of my knowlege none of them can, in spite of rumour to the contrary, walk on water.
Will a pilot either military or ar transport rated explained me the difference between a fly by a fly past and a go around.
Although we do not know the details.how could the manouevre under light differs from a fly by to check on a gear unsafe indication.
Although we do not know the details.how could the manouevre under light differs from a fly by to check on a gear unsafe indication.
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We all used to await clearance into Luanda from ATC of "D2 xxx: cleared NOT ABOVE 500' by 20 miles inbound." And believe me, we used to take full advantage of that clearance. So it was in a Twin Otter where 250 knots is a mythical dream, let alone 350 kts and all that, but b$%%$^&s, it was still fun!
Controversial, moi?
Fly - by, fly - past is flying an aeroplane generally at low level past a crowd/airfield/dignitaries, etc. usually with the gear up with no intention of landing. The purpose is to either display an aircraft having planned, briefed and prepared for the manouevre(s) not usually flown or to show off and do something one is unaccustomed too, thereby putting oneself into an unfamiliar situation which, should something, unexpected happen increases the possibility of an accident.
A go-around is usually flying a missed approach having had every intention of landing in a normal configuration from normal approach and landing speeds.
Fly-bys for gear inspection are, in general, pointless and in my company are specifically discouraged. The relevant paragraph in my manual states that according to company research flypasts are unlikely to contribute any useful information to supplement flight deck indications.
One has to bear in mind in an unfamiliar configuration/at unfamiliar speed/at low level most pilots are stepping outside of their trained and familiar environment. Planning and briefing for something of this nature on the hoof will inevitably mean that all angles have not been considered. The GPWS warnings that might occur for instance or how would an Airbus behave?
As far as Concorde is concerned I believe it had a display routine which was properly prepared and briefed and I also believe that only certain trained individuals were allowed to fly that routine. The display mentioned with passengers did occur but this was before the carrying of passengers during a display routine was outlawed by the CAA. It was outlawed following the loss of life incurred when an old twin was unexpectedly barrel rolled into the ground during a display killing all on board. The manouevre, funny enough, was unplanned, unexpected and er.....fatal.
Some of my colleagues are surely ace pilots and can do anything in an aeroplane. Sadly I am only human and I will fly the aircraft as safely as I can within the operating parameters dictated by those that a) own it and b) pay my salary.
What really concerns me in this thread is that I am in agreement with 411A!
A go-around is usually flying a missed approach having had every intention of landing in a normal configuration from normal approach and landing speeds.
Fly-bys for gear inspection are, in general, pointless and in my company are specifically discouraged. The relevant paragraph in my manual states that according to company research flypasts are unlikely to contribute any useful information to supplement flight deck indications.
One has to bear in mind in an unfamiliar configuration/at unfamiliar speed/at low level most pilots are stepping outside of their trained and familiar environment. Planning and briefing for something of this nature on the hoof will inevitably mean that all angles have not been considered. The GPWS warnings that might occur for instance or how would an Airbus behave?
As far as Concorde is concerned I believe it had a display routine which was properly prepared and briefed and I also believe that only certain trained individuals were allowed to fly that routine. The display mentioned with passengers did occur but this was before the carrying of passengers during a display routine was outlawed by the CAA. It was outlawed following the loss of life incurred when an old twin was unexpectedly barrel rolled into the ground during a display killing all on board. The manouevre, funny enough, was unplanned, unexpected and er.....fatal.
Some of my colleagues are surely ace pilots and can do anything in an aeroplane. Sadly I am only human and I will fly the aircraft as safely as I can within the operating parameters dictated by those that a) own it and b) pay my salary.
What really concerns me in this thread is that I am in agreement with 411A!
L-1011 Fly-by.
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I'd be seriously concerned if I believed, as M. Mouse seems to think, that the average (non 'ace') airline captain wasn't capable of safely executing a simle fly-by. 
And why assume he didn't plan it thoroughly and competently?
Not asking management permission was unwise, but quite a different thing.
And why assume he didn't plan it thoroughly and competently?
Not asking management permission was unwise, but quite a different thing.
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A circling approach is also an evolution that is practised in the sim on a reasonably regular basis, and for which procedures appear in the Company's Ops. Manual. Such manoevres are carried out in order to get the aircraft on the ground as safely as possible.
A fly-past in order to carry out a visual gear check would normally have been done after all possible options from the QRH have been examined, and engineers consulted. It would also be carried out at a higher level than most fly-bys that I have personally witnessed.
Nobody appears to know much about this alleged incident, but I think it is safe to assume that it was not carried out with prior approval of the company. If it was done (as has been alleged) with approval from the airport authorities, we may conclude that the incident was reported by one of the company staff on board at the time, who, one assumes, disapproved. It is probably also safe to assume (I don't work for the company concerned so can't comment on their manual) that such procedures are not covered by any section of the Operations Manual.
The fate of the captain concerned is, similarly, not confirmed, so accusations of over-harsh action by the company are a little premature.
Yes, we have all carried out dubious "high jinks" stunts in the past. Hopefully, most of us learnt relatively inexpensively why they are not generally approved. Usually one learns such a lesson before commanding a multi-million dollar airframe, and being responsible for your company's reputation.
A fly-past in order to carry out a visual gear check would normally have been done after all possible options from the QRH have been examined, and engineers consulted. It would also be carried out at a higher level than most fly-bys that I have personally witnessed.
Nobody appears to know much about this alleged incident, but I think it is safe to assume that it was not carried out with prior approval of the company. If it was done (as has been alleged) with approval from the airport authorities, we may conclude that the incident was reported by one of the company staff on board at the time, who, one assumes, disapproved. It is probably also safe to assume (I don't work for the company concerned so can't comment on their manual) that such procedures are not covered by any section of the Operations Manual.
The fate of the captain concerned is, similarly, not confirmed, so accusations of over-harsh action by the company are a little premature.
Yes, we have all carried out dubious "high jinks" stunts in the past. Hopefully, most of us learnt relatively inexpensively why they are not generally approved. Usually one learns such a lesson before commanding a multi-million dollar airframe, and being responsible for your company's reputation.
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what a waste
Such a shame for all the family concerned and for all the others affected by a persons selfish action, not least those who have to clear up afterwards and those onto whome the mess gets flung.
Yes, I was there, fun it was not.
Yes, I was there, fun it was not.