Pilot selection
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Pilot selection
When the airforce/s stream pilots, it seems the normal procedure is to put the top candidates into fast jets, the others into heavies and whatever is left over into helicopters. (and now, at least in the British RAF, an even lower grade for drone 'pilots').
My question is, why are helicopter positions deemed to be at the bottom end of the potential scale?
I understand of course, that there is much more than just flying an aircraft to actually operating one effectively. I'm guessing that the additional training necessary for say, fast jets means you want your best people to soak it all up, but are heavy lift and tankers really more demanding than helicopter operations?
My question is, why are helicopter positions deemed to be at the bottom end of the potential scale?
I understand of course, that there is much more than just flying an aircraft to actually operating one effectively. I'm guessing that the additional training necessary for say, fast jets means you want your best people to soak it all up, but are heavy lift and tankers really more demanding than helicopter operations?
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Your suggested heirachy is not in alignment with the the general concensus in air force circles, although I'm sure many truckies would disagree and argue their position in the food chain. Every pilot, including me, will have some degree of vested interest and bias, but most would agree that it goes fast jet, rotary, multis. Drone flying is something an RAF Policman could be trained to do, as long as he was under the supervision of his dog.
Have a look at which fleets are picking up medals like they're going out of fashion (clue: they don't have rigidly attached wings).
Have a look at which fleets are picking up medals like they're going out of fashion (clue: they don't have rigidly attached wings).
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Great reply
"Drone flying is something an RAF Policeman could be trained to do, aslong as he was under the supervision of his dog." Love it
Perhaps my feeling came from the triservice and internal force rivalry? Perhaps my perpectiveis somewhat skewed by the fact that the airforce has fast/multi/heli, the navyjust having fast and heli (so I guess best pilots for fast, the rest of heli)and the Army having only helis (and 'small' ones at that) with, god forbid nonofficers flying them, and so clearly (perhaps to a fast jet officer at least) not as demanding in their operation somehow.
I've wondered about how the Army (UK and American) are fine with NCOs flyinghelicopters as long as they pass the aptitude tests to the same level, yet theNavy and RAF insist on pilots being officers. I guess the candidate to jobratio ensures they get the best and don't waste time on people that *might* beable to fly and operate the a/c well, but is it worth the risk etc.. plus theArmy have used it a carrot on a very long stick for recruitment purposes.
Perhaps my feeling came from the triservice and internal force rivalry? Perhaps my perpectiveis somewhat skewed by the fact that the airforce has fast/multi/heli, the navyjust having fast and heli (so I guess best pilots for fast, the rest of heli)and the Army having only helis (and 'small' ones at that) with, god forbid nonofficers flying them, and so clearly (perhaps to a fast jet officer at least) not as demanding in their operation somehow.
I've wondered about how the Army (UK and American) are fine with NCOs flyinghelicopters as long as they pass the aptitude tests to the same level, yet theNavy and RAF insist on pilots being officers. I guess the candidate to jobratio ensures they get the best and don't waste time on people that *might* beable to fly and operate the a/c well, but is it worth the risk etc.. plus theArmy have used it a carrot on a very long stick for recruitment purposes.
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I don't know if this is a definitive reason or not, but when applying as an Army Officer that is exactly what you apply as. It is only once graduating from Sandhurst that you are put into a regiment, which can be anything from Air Corps, Paras, Cavalry etc. There are tests you can do before you go to Sandhurst, and obviously have a preference for one particular role, but just because you want to be AAC doesn't mean you won't get stuck as a tank commander if that is where the requirement is. It's very much Army Officer first, then whatever trade you are afterwards. This also explains why NCO's can apply for aircrew, as the more pertinent role in the eyes of the Army is the soldiering skills.
This is different to the Navy & RAF, where you apply as direct entry aircrew so will do your FAT's at Cranwell before OASC/AIB.
This is different to the Navy & RAF, where you apply as direct entry aircrew so will do your FAT's at Cranwell before OASC/AIB.
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This theory might be based on the fact that back in my day all pilot wannabees had to go through OASC at BH wanting to fly nothing other than fast jets (and single seat at that). Once in the flying training system you were judged on ability and were recommended for streaming to Group 1,2 or 3. One being fast jet, two multi and three rotary.....possibly why people think that the best go FJ and the least able ( which they most definitely are not) go rotary. Simple number association.
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the least able ( which they most definitely are not) go rotary
Gentleman Aviator
When I went through training in the dim, distant past of Chipmunks and JPs, the system (seemed) to work like this.
We had large courses - I guess 20-ish graduated from the JP phase with Wings. The helicopter pilots were "different" and seemed to self-select first. Allegedly it was something to do with working in a small team (crew of 2 or 3), but possibly (probably!!) very remote from advice and/or supervision. So the more self-sufficient, dare I say mature (not old!!) ones went rotary.
What was left - the fixed wing ones - did seem to be more a straight "ability" cut, although of course the training was even then FJ oriented so course results would reflect that. And don't be tempted to dismiss the "heavies" as transport pilots only (shades of "hauling plastic dog sh!t"?) - cos the Nimrod and V Force guys had serious stuff to do in Cold War days ....
From memory - can't find the course photo! - we had 3 rotary, 4 FJ and the rest multi.
Edited to add: Found the course photo! 17 graduated so the split was 4/3/10. From memory the 10 "heavies" were 4 V Force (one subsequently Nimrod) and 6 transport.
We had large courses - I guess 20-ish graduated from the JP phase with Wings. The helicopter pilots were "different" and seemed to self-select first. Allegedly it was something to do with working in a small team (crew of 2 or 3), but possibly (probably!!) very remote from advice and/or supervision. So the more self-sufficient, dare I say mature (not old!!) ones went rotary.
What was left - the fixed wing ones - did seem to be more a straight "ability" cut, although of course the training was even then FJ oriented so course results would reflect that. And don't be tempted to dismiss the "heavies" as transport pilots only (shades of "hauling plastic dog sh!t"?) - cos the Nimrod and V Force guys had serious stuff to do in Cold War days ....
From memory - can't find the course photo! - we had 3 rotary, 4 FJ and the rest multi.
Edited to add: Found the course photo! 17 graduated so the split was 4/3/10. From memory the 10 "heavies" were 4 V Force (one subsequently Nimrod) and 6 transport.
Last edited by teeteringhead; 5th Apr 2013 at 16:50.
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Teetering head - You make an excellent point about the V force. For sure they certainly had an awful lot of work to do as well.
I also see what you are saying about the self sufficient nature as well. In all the books I have read so far they make constant mention to the fact that (and this isn't to denigrate fw flying at all btw) whilst fw pilots have known runways for TO and landing, plus towers, met reports, ILS etc, most heli pilots have to be happy to pick and choose their own, so it naturally appeals and/or gravitates towards those who are happier or more able to do so.
I also see what you are saying about the self sufficient nature as well. In all the books I have read so far they make constant mention to the fact that (and this isn't to denigrate fw flying at all btw) whilst fw pilots have known runways for TO and landing, plus towers, met reports, ILS etc, most heli pilots have to be happy to pick and choose their own, so it naturally appeals and/or gravitates towards those who are happier or more able to do so.
There's a lot that goes into the decision. Ability, personality and not least, slots available. On one of the most able courses I can remember instructing on the Tucano, 7 out of the 8 went to helicopters - because at that time in the mid 90s, FJs were being run down andthe rotary world was expanding. All 8 had F recommendations and the one who did go wan't the best on the course. He was deemed too immature to be a helicopter pilot and it was assumed he would benefit from the closer supervision of the FJ environment!
(Cat thoroughly inserted into pigeon flock!)
(Cat thoroughly inserted into pigeon flock!)
