Cockpit complement & what happened to flight engineers?
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Cockpit complement & what happened to flight engineers?
I have just been doing some reading on postwar commercial flying which has raised a few questions.
Long haul aircraft in the 50s would typically have a cockpit crew of five:
Radio operator - whose job disappeared with advances in radio technology (I have started another thread on this).
Navigator - whose job disappeared with the introduction of INS around 1970
Flight Engineer - whose job in turn began disappearing with the introduction of glass cockpits around 1990
Capitain & First Officer - still very much around!
My first question is did you start as a radio operator and be promoted to navigator & FO etc or were they separate professions? Did it vary by country & airline? I know that in Europe the Flight Engineer generally started as a ground engineer and did not become a pilot (although he was expected to sit in a pilots seat in case of incapacitation) - there were exceptions such as BEA. In the USA I believe that there was a struggle between the pilot & FE unions with the result that all flight deck staff were recruited as pilots after about 1960 at lease in some airlines. I don't know whether this had anything to do with ALPA's campaign for a third pilot on 737s which United certainly had for a time.
My second question is what happened to Flt Engs when their position disappeared? Were they retrained as pilots and if so where did they end up on the the seniority ladder? I've heard of BA pilots who started as Flt Engs but I've also heard of FEs who became cabin crew as they didn't want to learn to be pilots.
Could anyone tell me what it was like in their airline?
Long haul aircraft in the 50s would typically have a cockpit crew of five:
Radio operator - whose job disappeared with advances in radio technology (I have started another thread on this).
Navigator - whose job disappeared with the introduction of INS around 1970
Flight Engineer - whose job in turn began disappearing with the introduction of glass cockpits around 1990
Capitain & First Officer - still very much around!
My first question is did you start as a radio operator and be promoted to navigator & FO etc or were they separate professions? Did it vary by country & airline? I know that in Europe the Flight Engineer generally started as a ground engineer and did not become a pilot (although he was expected to sit in a pilots seat in case of incapacitation) - there were exceptions such as BEA. In the USA I believe that there was a struggle between the pilot & FE unions with the result that all flight deck staff were recruited as pilots after about 1960 at lease in some airlines. I don't know whether this had anything to do with ALPA's campaign for a third pilot on 737s which United certainly had for a time.
My second question is what happened to Flt Engs when their position disappeared? Were they retrained as pilots and if so where did they end up on the the seniority ladder? I've heard of BA pilots who started as Flt Engs but I've also heard of FEs who became cabin crew as they didn't want to learn to be pilots.
Could anyone tell me what it was like in their airline?
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Flight engineers in the civil world would have trained for other positions.
My stepdad was an Flt Eng in the RAF, They were offered re-training to be load masters.
I know a fair percentage left the RAF, but those were the guys who had served enough to receive a military pension. I know a few of the younger ones re trained as loadies.
My stepdad was an Flt Eng in the RAF, They were offered re-training to be load masters.
I know a fair percentage left the RAF, but those were the guys who had served enough to receive a military pension. I know a few of the younger ones re trained as loadies.
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I'm also guessing that quite a few FE would have retired and their numbers reduced due to natural wastage as their type was retired. Don't forget that there are still quite a few freight aircraft that could still require a FE flying around the world.
As an un-employed F/E I am sitting at home waiting to see if another F/E job will happen. I doubt it, so I will have to get the spanners out and go back to maintenance from where I came.
A few of my colleagues became pilots but at their own expense.
A few of my colleagues became pilots but at their own expense.
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Speaking for my last known operator of DC-10's they decide to hire pilots for the FE position, I probably flown as a flight mech there with the last PFE's that I will ever know. I also flew with many captains that hit their age limit and continued to fly sideways.
FLCH, great video!!!!!
FLCH, great video!!!!!
