Flight training started already...criminal background question regarding hiring.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Age: 35
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Flight training started already...criminal background question regarding hiring.
I'm a 22 year old college student north of Dallas. I've already completed the PPL and am still extremely nervous about my criminal background preventing me from being hired anywhere.
I was arrested at 17 with three other boys from my high school and charged with arson (felony) and criminal mischief. I helped some classmates attempt a prank with fireworks on one of our friends which resulted in his vehicle and one of his parents' vehicles burning to heaps in their drive way. That's bad enough but when the police spoke to us two of the boys confessed to several petty burglaries of vehicles and vandalism. I was not accused or charged of either.
Needless to say, I was in a terrible situation. I was in a lengthy court battle but in the end I received FIVE years of Adult Probation WITHOUT a conviction. I'm on Deferred Adjudication probation which means that I've never been convicted and that I can have the records SEALED five years after the date of completion. Sealing a record, mind you is not the same as having a record expunged. Felonies can't be expunged...
So what's happened since then?
I'm a student at the University of North Texas, criminal justice major with one year of mechanical & energy engineering. I took the 2010-2011 academic year off to begin flight training and decide whether or not I want to change my major again.
I paid the $30,000 of restitution off myself instead of moving out of my father's house or asking him to help. I completed 300 hours of community service, I've incurred zero violations while on probation, and I have a job. My completion date is February 2012.
I have read and am familiar with background checks for US and EU carriers.
My questions, finally...
1. What are your opinions on the possibility of me having a good career as a pilot in the United States?
2. Is the corporate sector more likely to hire non-convicts with criminal backgrounds?
3. Do you know anyone that has a similar story and if so, what was their experience with job hunting? (I have been unable to find a similar situation online)
4. Do you know of other countries that would more inclined to hire people with criminal charges in their past?
I would like to immigrate to one of the EU countries. I've read about Dubai being an interesting place for American expatriates as well but I've traveled extensively in the EU am much more comfortable there.
I'm between flight schools and nobody where I went had any valuable information on the issue. If I'm putting myself up to an expensive and arduous task trying to be a commercial pilot with a background I need to know it before years and thousands and thousands of dollars are gone and I still can't make a living.
Any reply will make me feel better about my desire to fly,
Thank You
I was arrested at 17 with three other boys from my high school and charged with arson (felony) and criminal mischief. I helped some classmates attempt a prank with fireworks on one of our friends which resulted in his vehicle and one of his parents' vehicles burning to heaps in their drive way. That's bad enough but when the police spoke to us two of the boys confessed to several petty burglaries of vehicles and vandalism. I was not accused or charged of either.
Needless to say, I was in a terrible situation. I was in a lengthy court battle but in the end I received FIVE years of Adult Probation WITHOUT a conviction. I'm on Deferred Adjudication probation which means that I've never been convicted and that I can have the records SEALED five years after the date of completion. Sealing a record, mind you is not the same as having a record expunged. Felonies can't be expunged...
So what's happened since then?
I'm a student at the University of North Texas, criminal justice major with one year of mechanical & energy engineering. I took the 2010-2011 academic year off to begin flight training and decide whether or not I want to change my major again.
I paid the $30,000 of restitution off myself instead of moving out of my father's house or asking him to help. I completed 300 hours of community service, I've incurred zero violations while on probation, and I have a job. My completion date is February 2012.
I have read and am familiar with background checks for US and EU carriers.
My questions, finally...
1. What are your opinions on the possibility of me having a good career as a pilot in the United States?
2. Is the corporate sector more likely to hire non-convicts with criminal backgrounds?
3. Do you know anyone that has a similar story and if so, what was their experience with job hunting? (I have been unable to find a similar situation online)
4. Do you know of other countries that would more inclined to hire people with criminal charges in their past?
I would like to immigrate to one of the EU countries. I've read about Dubai being an interesting place for American expatriates as well but I've traveled extensively in the EU am much more comfortable there.
I'm between flight schools and nobody where I went had any valuable information on the issue. If I'm putting myself up to an expensive and arduous task trying to be a commercial pilot with a background I need to know it before years and thousands and thousands of dollars are gone and I still can't make a living.
Any reply will make me feel better about my desire to fly,
Thank You
Join Date: May 2000
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Here's the relevant text of the form for the criminal history check:
You'll have to consult a lawyer for your particular circumstances to find out whether they constitute a finding or plea as described. Nobody here will be able to tell you definitively, who can/will or cannot/won't hire you.
. . .
Disqualifying Criminal Offenses
. . .
22. Armed or felony unarmed robbery
23. Distribution of, or intent to distribute, a controlled substance
24. Felony arson
25. Felony involving a threat
26. Felony involving:
a. Willful destruction of property;
b. Importation or manufacture of a controlled substance;
c. Burglary;
d. Theft;
e. Dishonesty, fraud or misrepresentation;
f. Possession or distribution of stolen property;
g. Aggravated assault;
h. Bribery; or
i. Illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.
27. Violence at international airports; 18 U.S.C. 37
28. Conspiracy or attempt to commit any of the criminal acts listed above.
The above list is from 49 U.S.C. 44936(b)(1)(B), United States Code and 49 C.F.R. 1544.229(d).
I have read the above list of Disqualifying Criminal Offenses and certify that I have not been convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of these offenses in the 10 years preceding the date of this application. A conviction means any finding of guilt, plea of guilty or plea of nolo contendere.
I understand that pursuant to 49 CFR 1544.229 and 1544.230, I have a continuing obligation to disclose to my employer, within 24 hours, if I am convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of the above disqualifying offenses.
The information that I have provided on this application is true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and is provided in good faith. I understand that a knowing and willful false statement on this application can be punished by fine or imprisonment or both. (See section 1001 of Title 18, United States Code.)
Disqualifying Criminal Offenses
. . .
22. Armed or felony unarmed robbery
23. Distribution of, or intent to distribute, a controlled substance
24. Felony arson
25. Felony involving a threat
26. Felony involving:
a. Willful destruction of property;
b. Importation or manufacture of a controlled substance;
c. Burglary;
d. Theft;
e. Dishonesty, fraud or misrepresentation;
f. Possession or distribution of stolen property;
g. Aggravated assault;
h. Bribery; or
i. Illegal possession of a controlled substance punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of more than 1 year.
27. Violence at international airports; 18 U.S.C. 37
28. Conspiracy or attempt to commit any of the criminal acts listed above.
The above list is from 49 U.S.C. 44936(b)(1)(B), United States Code and 49 C.F.R. 1544.229(d).
I have read the above list of Disqualifying Criminal Offenses and certify that I have not been convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of these offenses in the 10 years preceding the date of this application. A conviction means any finding of guilt, plea of guilty or plea of nolo contendere.
I understand that pursuant to 49 CFR 1544.229 and 1544.230, I have a continuing obligation to disclose to my employer, within 24 hours, if I am convicted, or found not guilty by reason of insanity, of any of the above disqualifying offenses.
The information that I have provided on this application is true, complete, and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief and is provided in good faith. I understand that a knowing and willful false statement on this application can be punished by fine or imprisonment or both. (See section 1001 of Title 18, United States Code.)
Join Date: Oct 2005
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MSP88,
Unless you've left something out, you have no criminal conviction. You're on deferred adjudication, meaning that if you do nothing wrong for five years, your record is wiped clean. While felonies aren't expunged, you don't have a felony conviction. In essence, you've been charged, and the judge has elected to put you on his watch list for five years to ensure you don't enter into a pattern of inappropriate behavior. From your description, the judge determined that you did something stupid, you're sorry, you made a mistake, but you're not lumped in with your friends (who are criminals).
Does this sound like a correct assessment of your situation?
You sound like someone who has taken great pains to ensure that this doesn't become a repeat problem, and to see that the matter is properly settled. Legally, without a conviction, you're not guilty of a felony. You don't have a criminal history. Whether these events were ever entered into the national crime information computer and whether they'll show up on a check is a matter of locality; some jurisdictions upload this data into the NCIC and make it available to show up on a III (criminal history) background check, others don't. You'll need to consult an attorney, but I suspect that given you weren't convicted, there was no need to upload the case into NCIC. Simply because you're on probation doesn't mean that you're going to show up with a felony item on your background check. This is one area where you will want to have a background check run, and determine what shows up.
For a nominal fee, you can usually request that your state Bureau of Criminal Investigation provide you with a background check; it's quick, and it will show you what's on your record. You may be able to request it at your local police station or sheriff's office, as well. Explain what you want and why, and you probably won't have any issues.
Whether you actually show with a record or not doens't mean that an employer will or won't hire you. Your question boils down to a matter of whether or not you're employable. The answer is that it's up to the employer. With tens of thousands of employers out there, you've got tens of thousands of yes's, no's, and maybe's.
How you handle it will make a big difference. There are no absolutes here.
I personally know inviduals who are flying professionally who have been convicted of crimes; I know two individuals that have shot people, one of whom did time in prison for the killing. This is not the norm, however.
Not all background checks are created equal. The FAA background check, which is about to get more extensive with the upcoming regulatory changes, isn't much of a background check. The FAA records check is more interested in driving history and past employment with air carriers than anything.
Other types of background checks can be conducted by individual employers and include credit checks and criminal history, but may include very extensive investigations for jobs that require a security clearance. If you intend to go to work for the government at some point, for example, you may require a clearance, just as you may if you're working for a contractor to certain government jobs. The nature of this type of background check really depends on what you'll be doing, as there are various levels of clearance. A typical TS clearance (Top Secret) involves a fairly thorough examination of your life, including visits to old addresses, neighbors, ex-girl-friends, employers, etc. They wring your life out thoroughly, and it takes a year or more.
If you're going for an airline type job or a corporate job, the background check is perfunctory, and fairly minimal. Most companies will do a credit check, all do driving checks, and of course you'll undergo drug tests and so forth. A check of the National Driver Registry will come back to go in your records, and forms will be sent to each of your former aviation employers that were air carriers (not an issue for your first job, obviously).
At some point in an interview, you're going to get asked if you've ever been convicted of a crime. If the answer is no, such as in this case, you can honestly answer "no." If the answer is yes, always be honest. You'll likely be asked if you've ever plead nolo contender, or no contest, you'll possibly be asked about having been charged with a crime. When this comes up, be honest.
How you deal with the situation will say a lot about you. If you try to hide what youv'e done, that says something about you. If you can show that you made a mistake as a kid, learned from it, bent over backward to walk the straight-and-narrow, and grew from the experience, that says something about you, too. The past events are only part of the picture; what you learned from them, how you grew from them, and how it's improved your character is what counts.
If you made a mistake in your youth, but then went on to seek a degree in criminal justice, paid it off, had a spotless probation (and no conviction), and grew form the event, then you've probably got something good to say and it speaks well of you. This may be a selling point for you; it may be a positive thing, and it may be something that makes you memorable to an interviewer.
How one company, airline, or agency looks at your background is not necessarily the way another will see you. It's good to keep that in mind.
You should also remember that you're not going to get your commercial certificate and go find a job in a 737. That could easily be 10 or fifteen years away for you; you'll work a number of jobs in the interim in which your background really isn't that important. You'll likely instruct for a year or two, perhaps fly skydivers or do traffic watch or tow banners. You'll probably do freight or go fly Cessna 207's in Alaska. You may get on with a regional or commuter at some point. You may go do single engine freight and then piston multi engine, and then find something turbine.
Finding work may or may not be difficult; the industry is cyclical; hiring is sometimes furious, sometimes nearly non-existent, and it tends to run in five year cycles from high to low. Hiring is increasing right now, so you may be getting in at a good time. If you have a troubled past and look for work when there's little to be had, you'll have a much more difficult time. If you have a troubled past and look for work when the industry is snapping up pilots right, left, and center, then you may find that nobody cares.
Some companies will take a very close look at your background; some may be dissuaded, others may be encouraged. How you've handled it and how you explain it makes a big, big difference.
You also need to keep in mind that a company is putting a great deal of trust in you when hiring you as a pilot. It's not just the value of the airplane and the lives in the airplane or on the ground; it's also the reputation of the company, the duty, and the liability attached thereto. Stack up an airplane or so something foolish, and while the company may be able to eat the loss, the damage to reputation may be too much. Aviation lives on a razor-thin profit margin, and a single crash has crushed companies in the past.
If a company thinks that you won't exercise good judgment, or thinks that you act rashly, they'll be less inclined to let you handle their five hundred thousand dollar or eighty million dollar airplane; you need to be able to show them that you're trustworthy, stable, and mature.
Your response sounds level-headed; you've taken responsibility and you've taken the initiative. Bear in mind that as you undertake a career in this industry, you put your life under a microscope. I've lost track of the number of background checks and investigations I've undergone for this employer or that, this agency or that one. Your reputation and your history are very important. Protect them as a valued asset. In youth, many people don't realize just how critical this is, and it can set back a career. I think from your description you understand this and you've taken great strides to put things right in your life. Keep doing that, and be able to show that you've done that.
Pick up a book by Cheryl Cage called "Reporting Clear." It will guide you through your background check and history, and give you a way of building your own file so you know exactly what you will have to work with as you move along in your training and your career. Good luck.
Unless you've left something out, you have no criminal conviction. You're on deferred adjudication, meaning that if you do nothing wrong for five years, your record is wiped clean. While felonies aren't expunged, you don't have a felony conviction. In essence, you've been charged, and the judge has elected to put you on his watch list for five years to ensure you don't enter into a pattern of inappropriate behavior. From your description, the judge determined that you did something stupid, you're sorry, you made a mistake, but you're not lumped in with your friends (who are criminals).
Does this sound like a correct assessment of your situation?
You sound like someone who has taken great pains to ensure that this doesn't become a repeat problem, and to see that the matter is properly settled. Legally, without a conviction, you're not guilty of a felony. You don't have a criminal history. Whether these events were ever entered into the national crime information computer and whether they'll show up on a check is a matter of locality; some jurisdictions upload this data into the NCIC and make it available to show up on a III (criminal history) background check, others don't. You'll need to consult an attorney, but I suspect that given you weren't convicted, there was no need to upload the case into NCIC. Simply because you're on probation doesn't mean that you're going to show up with a felony item on your background check. This is one area where you will want to have a background check run, and determine what shows up.
For a nominal fee, you can usually request that your state Bureau of Criminal Investigation provide you with a background check; it's quick, and it will show you what's on your record. You may be able to request it at your local police station or sheriff's office, as well. Explain what you want and why, and you probably won't have any issues.
Whether you actually show with a record or not doens't mean that an employer will or won't hire you. Your question boils down to a matter of whether or not you're employable. The answer is that it's up to the employer. With tens of thousands of employers out there, you've got tens of thousands of yes's, no's, and maybe's.
How you handle it will make a big difference. There are no absolutes here.
I personally know inviduals who are flying professionally who have been convicted of crimes; I know two individuals that have shot people, one of whom did time in prison for the killing. This is not the norm, however.
Not all background checks are created equal. The FAA background check, which is about to get more extensive with the upcoming regulatory changes, isn't much of a background check. The FAA records check is more interested in driving history and past employment with air carriers than anything.
Other types of background checks can be conducted by individual employers and include credit checks and criminal history, but may include very extensive investigations for jobs that require a security clearance. If you intend to go to work for the government at some point, for example, you may require a clearance, just as you may if you're working for a contractor to certain government jobs. The nature of this type of background check really depends on what you'll be doing, as there are various levels of clearance. A typical TS clearance (Top Secret) involves a fairly thorough examination of your life, including visits to old addresses, neighbors, ex-girl-friends, employers, etc. They wring your life out thoroughly, and it takes a year or more.
If you're going for an airline type job or a corporate job, the background check is perfunctory, and fairly minimal. Most companies will do a credit check, all do driving checks, and of course you'll undergo drug tests and so forth. A check of the National Driver Registry will come back to go in your records, and forms will be sent to each of your former aviation employers that were air carriers (not an issue for your first job, obviously).
At some point in an interview, you're going to get asked if you've ever been convicted of a crime. If the answer is no, such as in this case, you can honestly answer "no." If the answer is yes, always be honest. You'll likely be asked if you've ever plead nolo contender, or no contest, you'll possibly be asked about having been charged with a crime. When this comes up, be honest.
How you deal with the situation will say a lot about you. If you try to hide what youv'e done, that says something about you. If you can show that you made a mistake as a kid, learned from it, bent over backward to walk the straight-and-narrow, and grew from the experience, that says something about you, too. The past events are only part of the picture; what you learned from them, how you grew from them, and how it's improved your character is what counts.
If you made a mistake in your youth, but then went on to seek a degree in criminal justice, paid it off, had a spotless probation (and no conviction), and grew form the event, then you've probably got something good to say and it speaks well of you. This may be a selling point for you; it may be a positive thing, and it may be something that makes you memorable to an interviewer.
How one company, airline, or agency looks at your background is not necessarily the way another will see you. It's good to keep that in mind.
You should also remember that you're not going to get your commercial certificate and go find a job in a 737. That could easily be 10 or fifteen years away for you; you'll work a number of jobs in the interim in which your background really isn't that important. You'll likely instruct for a year or two, perhaps fly skydivers or do traffic watch or tow banners. You'll probably do freight or go fly Cessna 207's in Alaska. You may get on with a regional or commuter at some point. You may go do single engine freight and then piston multi engine, and then find something turbine.
Finding work may or may not be difficult; the industry is cyclical; hiring is sometimes furious, sometimes nearly non-existent, and it tends to run in five year cycles from high to low. Hiring is increasing right now, so you may be getting in at a good time. If you have a troubled past and look for work when there's little to be had, you'll have a much more difficult time. If you have a troubled past and look for work when the industry is snapping up pilots right, left, and center, then you may find that nobody cares.
Some companies will take a very close look at your background; some may be dissuaded, others may be encouraged. How you've handled it and how you explain it makes a big, big difference.
You also need to keep in mind that a company is putting a great deal of trust in you when hiring you as a pilot. It's not just the value of the airplane and the lives in the airplane or on the ground; it's also the reputation of the company, the duty, and the liability attached thereto. Stack up an airplane or so something foolish, and while the company may be able to eat the loss, the damage to reputation may be too much. Aviation lives on a razor-thin profit margin, and a single crash has crushed companies in the past.
If a company thinks that you won't exercise good judgment, or thinks that you act rashly, they'll be less inclined to let you handle their five hundred thousand dollar or eighty million dollar airplane; you need to be able to show them that you're trustworthy, stable, and mature.
Your response sounds level-headed; you've taken responsibility and you've taken the initiative. Bear in mind that as you undertake a career in this industry, you put your life under a microscope. I've lost track of the number of background checks and investigations I've undergone for this employer or that, this agency or that one. Your reputation and your history are very important. Protect them as a valued asset. In youth, many people don't realize just how critical this is, and it can set back a career. I think from your description you understand this and you've taken great strides to put things right in your life. Keep doing that, and be able to show that you've done that.
Pick up a book by Cheryl Cage called "Reporting Clear." It will guide you through your background check and history, and give you a way of building your own file so you know exactly what you will have to work with as you move along in your training and your career. Good luck.
