Meaning of "company" in aviation speak
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Meaning of "company" in aviation speak
Evening,
Can I ask a quick question (or two)?
Does "company" in aviation-speak only refer to BA? As in: "Speedbird XYZ: line up after the departing company 319."
Is this term "official" or just accepted "short-hand"?
Is it used at all UK airports or only at LHR?
Is it only used when speaking to another BA aircraft, or would a pilot from any airline at a UK airport be expected to know who he means?
Finally, do other countries have an equivalent? For example, would an ATCO at Charles de Gauille call an Air France by a similar name?
Best wishes
Nick
Can I ask a quick question (or two)?
Does "company" in aviation-speak only refer to BA? As in: "Speedbird XYZ: line up after the departing company 319."
Is this term "official" or just accepted "short-hand"?
Is it used at all UK airports or only at LHR?
Is it only used when speaking to another BA aircraft, or would a pilot from any airline at a UK airport be expected to know who he means?
Finally, do other countries have an equivalent? For example, would an ATCO at Charles de Gauille call an Air France by a similar name?
Best wishes
Nick
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"Company" = aircraft with same livery. It is only used if both aircraft from the airline are wearing the same livery ... if not, e.g. ACMI with no paint job, then the term company isn't used. And yes it happens all over the place.
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if not, e.g. ACMI with no paint job, then the term company isn't used
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Generally it refers to other aircraft of the same livery or operation, though not always.
Often it simply means "you guys who are all from generally the same place...or so we think."
Often it simply means "you guys who are all from generally the same place...or so we think."
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Heathrow Director: I am not a qualified Air Traffic Controller! I tried my best to use the correct terminology, but given that I only heard that phrase on some YouTube video about a year ago, I think you have to cut me some slack. I even said "departing" rather than "taking-off". That said, I take note of the correct order. 
What if it's dark? Surely it makes it harder for both ATCOs and pilots to see the livery in which adjacent aircraft are painted, especially if it is directly in front of you on the taxiway? Is there not the slightest risk of causing confusion by using the term?
What if it's dark? Surely it makes it harder for both ATCOs and pilots to see the livery in which adjacent aircraft are painted, especially if it is directly in front of you on the taxiway? Is there not the slightest risk of causing confusion by using the term?
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In terms of conditionals based on landing aircraft, it must always be the first one on approach. Further, conditional clearances may not be used during the hours of darkness. ATC procedures are not just decided on a whim, there is a comprehensive hazard analysis undertaken before any changes are made and all risks are minimised.
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reportyourlevel. Just curious, but presumably the prohibition of using conditional clearances at night is relatively recent? I recall when an instruction appeared that we could only use a single conditional clearance at night but I did not know it was now fully taboo.
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HD, reading up on this I realise that I wasn't very clear in my previous post. Our MATS Pt2 prohibits any conditional clearances at night or other times when stopbars are displayed (as well as some other situations). This has been the case at least for the last four years, but I can't speak for before that.
Edited to correct inaccuracies (thanks BT777 - the line between Pt1 and Pt2 has obviously blurred a little in my head!).
Edited to correct inaccuracies (thanks BT777 - the line between Pt1 and Pt2 has obviously blurred a little in my head!).
Last edited by reportyourlevel; 20th Oct 2010 at 04:17.
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Mats Pt1 doesn't prohibit conditional line up clearances at night. The only restriction is that you can't have multiple lineups at night.
It's done aircraft after aircraft at Heathrow every night!
It's done aircraft after aircraft at Heathrow every night!
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Not always with the same livery. Not sure the rules on this but if two aircraft have the same call sign then it also gets used, eg, GSS use speedbird and are sometimes told to do something with reference to company which is a BA aircraft. Same elsewhere, Cathay operates some dragonair flights and have been told to do something after the company 320 which is a dragonair aircraft. Have also heard a Cathay aircraft using a dragonair callsign being instructed to follow company 340 which was a cathay aircraft using a cathay callsign. This may not be how the rules are written but most people up front are smart enough to figure it out and if not would ask for clarification.
