Arrecife Questions
Thread Starter
Arrecife Questions
Folks,
I came back from Arrecife last night to Newcastle on a Jet2 757.
We were delayed around half an hour off stand, the captain eventually telling us that, due to a runway change, the crew had to spend time recalculating performance tables (or words to that effect). "Everything is now resolved" he said. What would there be to "resolve"?
I was a touch puzzled, as I used to work on the ground, flew on the jump seat regularly, and couldn't see why working out weights, speeds, etc, would take half an hour. Slot delays were not mentioned.
Do ATC surprise crews with last-minute runway changes at Arrecife, or is there a noise abatement restriction on usage after certain hours? The wind was calm. We departed over the water (21?). There was a further wait for arrivals on 03.
Or could there possibly be some issue with temperature and performance, the crew waiting for dusk and cooler air (and not letting on to the passengers)? I find this unlikely considering the capabilities of the 757. 21 is just under 8,000ft long, and it most have been in the 30's. It was rather a "sporting" rolling departure.
Of course, I'm not after specifics, just any general background information.
r
I came back from Arrecife last night to Newcastle on a Jet2 757.
We were delayed around half an hour off stand, the captain eventually telling us that, due to a runway change, the crew had to spend time recalculating performance tables (or words to that effect). "Everything is now resolved" he said. What would there be to "resolve"?
I was a touch puzzled, as I used to work on the ground, flew on the jump seat regularly, and couldn't see why working out weights, speeds, etc, would take half an hour. Slot delays were not mentioned.
Do ATC surprise crews with last-minute runway changes at Arrecife, or is there a noise abatement restriction on usage after certain hours? The wind was calm. We departed over the water (21?). There was a further wait for arrivals on 03.
Or could there possibly be some issue with temperature and performance, the crew waiting for dusk and cooler air (and not letting on to the passengers)? I find this unlikely considering the capabilities of the 757. 21 is just under 8,000ft long, and it most have been in the 30's. It was rather a "sporting" rolling departure.
Of course, I'm not after specifics, just any general background information.
r
Join Date: Aug 2001
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03 is quite restrictive on the performance side of things as there's rising terrain on departure off 03. As a result sometimes it's more favorable to depart off 21 with a tail wind, as like you said it takes you over the sea and no terra firma. But you may be subject to delays as a result of arrivals on 03.
21 has the better performance at ACE as the departure takes you out to sea and is obstacle free,unlike 03 which has rapidly sloping terrain close to the departure end of the runway.Perhaps the crew were waiting for the wind to drop to a 10kt tailwind component so that they could use 21,or they were waiting for a gap in the arrivals on 03.I wasn't there but I am just quoting from experience.
Thread Starter
Thanks, folks.
It looks an interesting place for all sorts of reasons....
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...-arrecife.html
The wind last night looked pretty calm to me. And, just to clarify, we boarded in good time, sat with the door open for a good half an hour, then sat at the holding point for the 03 arrivals for around ten minutes.
230 punters to Newcastle shouldn't have proved a serious challenge on 21 to a 757, should it?
However, I sat next to the front overwing exit and the sound effects for the first two minutes after departure were grin-inducing.
r
It looks an interesting place for all sorts of reasons....
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...-arrecife.html
The wind last night looked pretty calm to me. And, just to clarify, we boarded in good time, sat with the door open for a good half an hour, then sat at the holding point for the 03 arrivals for around ten minutes.
230 punters to Newcastle shouldn't have proved a serious challenge on 21 to a 757, should it?
However, I sat next to the front overwing exit and the sound effects for the first two minutes after departure were grin-inducing.
r
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I operated last night from ACE and was met with similar challenges.
The reason for the extra calculations were due to the fact that the VOR that is used for navigation on departure on RWY 03 was out of service, so RWY 21 had to be used.
It was fairly breezy down there last night, so different calculations had to be used for performance.
Of course, trying to find a gap for departing aircraft on rwy21 in between arrivals on rwy03 helped slow things down!
So, nothing to worry about, just takes a little longer to get the show on the road! At least you were not on an aircraft that could not take the tailwind component! There were a few sitting waiting for the wind to calm a little!
The reason for the extra calculations were due to the fact that the VOR that is used for navigation on departure on RWY 03 was out of service, so RWY 21 had to be used.
It was fairly breezy down there last night, so different calculations had to be used for performance.
Of course, trying to find a gap for departing aircraft on rwy21 in between arrivals on rwy03 helped slow things down!
So, nothing to worry about, just takes a little longer to get the show on the road! At least you were not on an aircraft that could not take the tailwind component! There were a few sitting waiting for the wind to calm a little!
Thread Starter
Ah! From the sharp end. Thanks.
I didn't detect it was that breezy (compared to some of the winds we'd had on the island that week), but, then again, I was corralled in the terminal with several hundred Jeremy Kyle Show candidates,so was not exactly monitoring the ATIS.
I did see Ryanair get away on 03 earlier with a sharp right turn.
r
I didn't detect it was that breezy (compared to some of the winds we'd had on the island that week), but, then again, I was corralled in the terminal with several hundred Jeremy Kyle Show candidates,so was not exactly monitoring the ATIS.
I did see Ryanair get away on 03 earlier with a sharp right turn.
r
Some years back now (Autumn '99, I think) I was pax on one of the last "Cally" L1011 flights out of ACE. Fully loaded, IIRC, over 400 pax.
Reading this thread reminded me of that experience, as I remember we sat at the 21 hold for about 20 minutes on a warm, calm-ish evening, waiting for a stream of arrivals on 03, before we could depart with no volcanoes in the way on 21.
When departure off 21 wasn't possible, I recall some L1011's bending into FAO on the way north for fuel they couldn't take out of ACE on 03.
Reading this thread reminded me of that experience, as I remember we sat at the 21 hold for about 20 minutes on a warm, calm-ish evening, waiting for a stream of arrivals on 03, before we could depart with no volcanoes in the way on 21.
When departure off 21 wasn't possible, I recall some L1011's bending into FAO on the way north for fuel they couldn't take out of ACE on 03.
Many years ago I had an engine surge in a 757 coming out of ACE in a 757, just part way through the turn from 03. Can't have been much over height of 1000 feet and just after thrust reduction (Reverser locked out so full power take off with large thrust reduction to flap retraction)
I managed to make the newspapers after some slightly shocked pax refused to get back on board. The Telegraph reported "Jet fire survivors given valium jabs" on their front page.
03 departues are a bit unpleasant in rough conditions and very unpleasant on one engine, although the reciprocal arrival onto 21 is challenging and rewarding if you get it right.
I managed to make the newspapers after some slightly shocked pax refused to get back on board. The Telegraph reported "Jet fire survivors given valium jabs" on their front page.
03 departues are a bit unpleasant in rough conditions and very unpleasant on one engine, although the reciprocal arrival onto 21 is challenging and rewarding if you get it right.
