Are airshows getting tamer?
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There will [should!] never be over the crowd stuff any more, not because of the nanny regulations, but ,of course, because of the horrendous results of things going wrong. Ramstein, and the worst one ever in Ukraine a few years ago Yes, we all attend at our own risk, but the insurance liabilities and implications are enormous in disasters these days, so common sense has prevailed. Personally, I always had this nightmare in my mind of the Vulcan landing at Fairford, from the right, and the left undercarriage collapsing. Where would the aircraft go?, It would turn left, and go straight through the crowd, that, gentlemen etc., would be fact. Accidents like this are now, fortunately in my opinion, anticipated, and all reasonable steps are taken to ensure the publics' safety, but accidents will continue to happen, but with much reduced spectator risk.Enjoy your shows this year [whilst they are still there!]
JEM60, your argument does not make sense. The Ramstein accident occured flying along the display line - after the collision one aircraft veered into the crowd.
Regarding arrivals from behind the crowdline - the Red Arrows still do that.
Regarding arrivals from behind the crowdline - the Red Arrows still do that.
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Tiger Meet Cambrai France 1986 ?
RR
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There's risk in all we do!
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Groundloop, total BS mate 
The airplane which initiated the collisions was flying directly towards the crowd. It's not as if there are no videos, photos or accounts which categorically confirm this. eg Ramstein airshow disaster Summary
You do know about Google, don't you ?
The airplane which initiated the collisions was flying directly towards the crowd. It's not as if there are no videos, photos or accounts which categorically confirm this. eg Ramstein airshow disaster Summary
You do know about Google, don't you ?
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Knife Edge, that's the one that I was writing about above. Talk about death by afterburner, everything shook. And in which case you would remember the 2 104s one under the other as I described!
The arrival from crowd rear of (I believe five Canadian) F104s on afterburner was much further back in time as it was when the Air Tattoo was at Greenham Common. Bit sketchy on detail because I was a kid at the time.
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Another one that stands out in my airshow memory is the departure of the Soviet TU22 (?) Backfire bomber at Farnborough air show (90s ?) probably the loudest jet engine I have ever heard.
Incidentally the very same Backfire is on display at the Ukraine air force museum at Kiev, the same museum also hosts the very same Sukhoi that shot down the Korean B747 !!
Incidentally the very same Backfire is on display at the Ukraine air force museum at Kiev, the same museum also hosts the very same Sukhoi that shot down the Korean B747 !!
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GROUNDLOOP.
To arrive from behind the display crowdline, display items need a special dispensation from the CAA. The Red Arrows have this dispensation. Can't think of any other recent items that have this, and, as said, the Ramstein aircraft that caused the disaster was flying towards the crowd, and flew through, rather than underneath [as planned] the main formation. The other two aircraft that crashed as a result were along the display line.
Perhaps my argument now makes sense?
To arrive from behind the display crowdline, display items need a special dispensation from the CAA. The Red Arrows have this dispensation. Can't think of any other recent items that have this, and, as said, the Ramstein aircraft that caused the disaster was flying towards the crowd, and flew through, rather than underneath [as planned] the main formation. The other two aircraft that crashed as a result were along the display line.
Perhaps my argument now makes sense?
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Incidentally the very same Backfire is on display at the Ukraine air force museum at Kiev, the same museum also hosts the very same Sukhoi that shot down the Korean B747 !!
Also to correct some on this thread (I think), the "Red Indians" approached without afterburner.. Even so it was still a fab experience.....
Oh, and over the top? .......
RR
Last edited by Ridge Runner; 15th Jun 2010 at 21:33.
You do know about Google, don't you ?
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Best ever show for me was Indianapolis
I've been to Farnborough (seen, heard and felt the Backfire), Prestwick in the early eighties and RIAT at Fairford 98?. All were great but none as involving as a trip to Indianapolis Airshow which co-incided with a work trip. Great line up but the action was really up close and personal. Aircraft were almost taxying through the crowd, moved aside by stewards, people were picnicking behind a F4 Corsair with the blades turning, which sent the lot flying. F17 Fortress with couple of engines turning and everyone wandering around in front of it. Sheriff's helicopter overflew the crowd line, blowing over bins and anything else loose, to land and offload what looked like crates of beer... 
Not my photos but worth visiting if you can
Indianapolis Air Show 2008 - a set on Flickr
Are all airshows in the USA as close to the action?
Not my photos but worth visiting if you can
Indianapolis Air Show 2008 - a set on Flickr
Are all airshows in the USA as close to the action?
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CARLSYMINGTON.
Certainly Oshkosh, Wisconsin is up
extremely close and personal in the aircraft parks, but expect be to be bossed about by hordes of marshals who seem to think that people have no common sense, and can't see a B.25 Mitchell taxiing head on at 25 yards.
They are, however, only doing their jobs, and it is a great place to be. Of the other shows, mostly military, that I have attended in the States, no, you cannot get so close. My experience only.
Certainly Oshkosh, Wisconsin is up
extremely close and personal in the aircraft parks, but expect be to be bossed about by hordes of marshals who seem to think that people have no common sense, and can't see a B.25 Mitchell taxiing head on at 25 yards.
They are, however, only doing their jobs, and it is a great place to be. Of the other shows, mostly military, that I have attended in the States, no, you cannot get so close. My experience only.
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F111 torch pass - igniting it's fuel dump with the afterburners!!
It was the Air Tattoo but I can't remember if it was late Greenham Common an early Fairford show or the one year that it was at Boscombe Down.
It was the Air Tattoo but I can't remember if it was late Greenham Common an early Fairford show or the one year that it was at Boscombe Down.
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Sooo, anyone going to Farnborough this year?
Once again am on stand duty for the week (or so) trying to do business whilst appreciating the various sounds from outside and wishing I could see and enjoy them.
I too think it far too expensive, and prohibitive for the first few days, to get in. Maximum publicity and exposure should be important for all concerned and not just the priviliged few.
Black Mercs will abound for those with the special passes whilst the downtrodden are just, errr, downtrodden.
I guess business is business
Once again am on stand duty for the week (or so) trying to do business whilst appreciating the various sounds from outside and wishing I could see and enjoy them.
I too think it far too expensive, and prohibitive for the first few days, to get in. Maximum publicity and exposure should be important for all concerned and not just the priviliged few.
Black Mercs will abound for those with the special passes whilst the downtrodden are just, errr, downtrodden.
I guess business is business
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farnborough 2010
What people dont really understand is that Farnborough is a trade
Show with a few days public events tacked on at the end .
And it upsets people when Aircraft that have been there all
trade week are removed for Weekend as are many exhibition
Stalls its the way its always been i doubt will change .
Entry tickets yes its pricey as are most events these days
but the Anklebiters go free under 16 saves a bit . Food and
Drink expensive as most places but the Crowds will still be there
inside and Out along the perimeter . Farnborough like most shows
has changed Health and Safety is one reason costs another
we will never see the shows of old again .
Tony
farnborough Resident
Show with a few days public events tacked on at the end .
And it upsets people when Aircraft that have been there all
trade week are removed for Weekend as are many exhibition
Stalls its the way its always been i doubt will change .
Entry tickets yes its pricey as are most events these days
but the Anklebiters go free under 16 saves a bit . Food and
Drink expensive as most places but the Crowds will still be there
inside and Out along the perimeter . Farnborough like most shows
has changed Health and Safety is one reason costs another
we will never see the shows of old again .
Tony
farnborough Resident
Low flying always enlivened air displays.
A couple of my photos. The first two of the second prototype Victor at the Biggin Hill B of B display September 1955.
The others (screen-grabs of 8mm cine film) of of Neil Williams, again at Bigginin the 1960's, not sure of year, inverted above the crowd, you don't get much lower than that, and inverted too!
A couple of my photos. The first two of the second prototype Victor at the Biggin Hill B of B display September 1955.
The others (screen-grabs of 8mm cine film) of of Neil Williams, again at Bigginin the 1960's, not sure of year, inverted above the crowd, you don't get much lower than that, and inverted too!
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CAP 403 specifies the requirements in the UK
CAP 403: Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to Safety and Administrative Arrangements | Publications | CAA
CAP 403: Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to Safety and Administrative Arrangements | Publications | CAA
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Im suprised there has been no mention of Mildenhall, or even Lakenheath. How about the up and coming Waddington in 2 weeks. Mildenhall used to put on a good show as i remember as a kid
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Went to a Mildenhall Show many years ago very enjoyable as were the shows
at Greenham but Bouncey castles and kiddy rides are ruining many a show
but its what brings the cash . And This ELF and Safety thing , By the way
who is this ELF Never met the guy seems he is in everything
Tony
at Greenham but Bouncey castles and kiddy rides are ruining many a show
but its what brings the cash . And This ELF and Safety thing , By the way
who is this ELF Never met the guy seems he is in everything
Tony
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With respect TOWTEAMBASE, the original thread was as to whether Air shows are getting tamer, not about how good they used to be. I admit to being part of the thread creep myself.
Most of us oldies could wax very lyrical about how good they used to be, but that has been done before, but boy, you youngsters missed out!!!
Another thread about Airshows in the nineties and before would not be conducive to your wellbeing [jealousy would be rampant], but it would bring a large smile to our older faces.
Most of us oldies could wax very lyrical about how good they used to be, but that has been done before, but boy, you youngsters missed out!!!
Another thread about Airshows in the nineties and before would not be conducive to your wellbeing [jealousy would be rampant], but it would bring a large smile to our older faces.