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Why are large military transport`s fitted with Props?

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Why are large military transport`s fitted with Props?

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Old 28th Nov 2009, 04:41
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Why are large military transport`s fitted with Props?

Having just seen the news report on the Airbus A400 it got me thinking why do Air Force planners specify the turbine propeller on such large military transport aircraft?


What is the advantage of the Prop and why don`t we seem then fitted to medium / large passenger airliners?

Smala01
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 07:08
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It's a'll them bullets firing ov'head ... th'cause havock with jets i say.. as a result, t'props are used...
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 07:46
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Probably to do with paying passengers not accepting huge noise levels in cabin and militarily reverse thrust with four huge props much better than four jets for short takeoff and landing requirements and slow flight necessary to launch paratroopers. Easier using props.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 08:18
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What about C-17, C-5, KC-10, VC-10, IL-76, AN-124 etc not a prop in sight


Ian B
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 08:30
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True, but it's interesting that the first Airbus product with propellors is their first military transport
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 08:52
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To be able to land on unpaved runways?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 10:16
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IB, how many of the aircraft you mentioned drop parachute loads or land on short/unpaved strips on a regular basis?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 11:14
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Think I have found one.........

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Old 28th Nov 2009, 12:04
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Yes its to do with STOL and unprepared runways , jet engines tend to have a large mouth and ingest loads of FOB
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 12:06
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Like the pic with 747 with props , I think those props are going to be quiet a bit shorter when they land , did it take off from a catapult ... good morphing
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 13:17
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C5,C17 and IL-76 to name 3

Ian B
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 21:10
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jet engines tend to have a large mouth and ingest loads of FOB
Is that Flippin' 'Orrible or Beggars? or Foreign Object Damage?
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 00:54
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To return to the OP's question, the main requirement of a tactical transport is to get heavy loads in and out of unprepared runways.

Maximum acceleration & deceleration are needed. The bigger the area of air that a fan or propellor works on, the more effective it is, so propellers are better than jets for this. Propellers will always be more effective than jets for reverse thrust, as they don't have to suck air in the front and turn it around.

Propellers also send accelerated air over both the top and bottom surface of the wing, as well as over any high-lift devices such as slots & flaps. The lift thus generated is far greater than would be achieved by the wing passing through the air at the aircraft's airspeed alone.
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 08:32
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IB, I don't think the IL-76 will take-off on a short unpaved strip. They seem to have a job even with 10,000 feet of tarmac!
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Old 4th Dec 2009, 12:36
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Thanks Mechta - this was exactly the info i was looking for.

On the flip side, what is the disadvantage of the props. Why do we not see them on modern large passenger transports.

Economy? Maintenance Cost?

Many Thanks

Smala01
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Old 4th Dec 2009, 14:37
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Take-off

Avman and IB,

The IL76 manages to get airbourne due to the curvature of the earth and lots of luck when I see them blast off...
Always a wonder how a brick flies so well!

TW
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Old 4th Dec 2009, 17:02
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Smala01, I'm glad I was able to help.

The disadvantages of propellers include:
  • They are very noisy for people on the ground when the tips reach supersonic speeds. The North American Harvard (Texan) is the often quoted example of this.
  • Cabin noise is higher.
  • Propellers are less efficient at high speed. See the relatively marginal increase in top speeds at the Reno air races over the years, even with new build aircraft.
  • A gearbox is needed to reduce the turbine speed down to optimum propeller speed.
  • Turbofans are designed to contain blades if they come off. Its really bad news if a propeller blade comes off and goes through the fuselage.
  • Ground clearance may require long undercarriage or a high wing.
  • There is a more likelihood of passengers inadvertently walking into a propeller blade, even if it is static, and hurting themselves.
There are always exceptions, and these include the TU-95 Bear and its airliner equivalent. I believe the props on this are designed to operate with tips supersonic.

In the late 1980s there was a lot of interest in the 'unducted fan' or prop fan which had blade with a very complex swept shape, running outside the engine cowl (look up propfan on wikipedia). As far as I recall, they didn't progress due to issues (perceived or real) with blade containment, noise and vibration.

The other issue for civil aircraft is the public's perception that a 'jet' is a modern aircraft and anything with propellers or propfans is 'a bit second rate'.
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