Heathrow
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: dodging CB clouds
If its any consulation, and i can vouch for most other aircraft photographers i know, getting involved with the local police can be a great thing.
Im an airport worker anyway, but by getting involved with the police and forming an airport watch group, we were given an ID card, security check 1st of course, and if we see anything suspicious we phone up our contacts. The police and airports know who we are and are happy for us to be there whenever we like.
I know Heathrow is nowhere near as friendly as say Manchester, but it would be nice if a scheme could be set up
Im an airport worker anyway, but by getting involved with the police and forming an airport watch group, we were given an ID card, security check 1st of course, and if we see anything suspicious we phone up our contacts. The police and airports know who we are and are happy for us to be there whenever we like.
I know Heathrow is nowhere near as friendly as say Manchester, but it would be nice if a scheme could be set up
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 500
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From: Oslo, Norway
TOWTEAMBASE:
they didnt take too kindly in greece remember
they didnt take too kindly in greece remember
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Not really, as the first thing across your mind ought to be "aviation enthusiast" as I refuse to be cowed into submission of assuming everyone is a mass murdering terrorist. Such assumptions are having a pernicious effect on the Police already as it's an easy tick in a box to detain someone that appears to be an aviation enthusiast and do a quick search under the Terrorism legislation. Try reciting a list of war dead in Whitehall and people have been arrested for illegal protests.....perspective please!
Might I ask what you might consider him to be doing that far from an aircraft that would be considered
1) Illegal
2) Harmful
In fairness, many of the Police are sensible and happy to leave you be. These are the guys who know where to expect to see spotters and regret moving them on, even though they are all aware no harm has / is being done.
I agree the idea is splendid but I think wholly impractical. However I am aware of what is going on around me and there have been occasions when I have been close to phoning the Police.Once in Dublin, two very Pakistani looking men were engaged in lots of photography but clearly weren't spotters, ie no notebooks or SLRs, and were clearly agitated as I was obviously gawping at them. I was so busy that I nearly fell backwards off the hillock I was on and was only saved from looking a proper t*** by the kindness and fast reflexes of the poor guy I had assumed to be reconnaisance for a terrorist cell. It's never easy, and I appreciate your intentions are spot on towteambase.
Might I ask what you might consider him to be doing that far from an aircraft that would be considered
1) Illegal
2) Harmful
In fairness, many of the Police are sensible and happy to leave you be. These are the guys who know where to expect to see spotters and regret moving them on, even though they are all aware no harm has / is being done.
I know Heathrow is nowhere near as friendly as say Manchester, but it would be nice if a scheme could be set up
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 500
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From: Oslo, Norway
For those of you that don't know the rules the UK police has to follow, check this link:
Photography and Counter-Terrorism legislation | Home Office
If you know the rules and your aircraft even a foreigner like me has no problems with the patrolling UK police - one of them has even become a close friend
Photography and Counter-Terrorism legislation | Home Office
If you know the rules and your aircraft even a foreigner like me has no problems with the patrolling UK police - one of them has even become a close friend
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,266
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From: Berkshire, UK
<<In fairness, many of the Police are sensible and happy to leave you be. These are the guys who know where to expect to see spotters and regret moving them on, even though they are all aware no harm has / is being done>>
Just don't go spotting on public roads around Farnborough or you are likely to receive a visit from Noddy. My wife and I got into conversation with the guy who "apprehended" us because we had a mutual friend in the police. He explained that to achieve his targets it was far easier to stop and search aircraft spotters than become involved in punch-ups in the local shopping precinct. He still went through the nause of filling in report forms, etc.
On the other side of the coin, my wife and I have spent many hours photographing the 27R landers at Heathrow by parking on the grass verge opposite the long stay car park near 27R threshold. Plenty of airport security and police vehicles passed within feet of us yet never once were we questioned.
Just don't go spotting on public roads around Farnborough or you are likely to receive a visit from Noddy. My wife and I got into conversation with the guy who "apprehended" us because we had a mutual friend in the police. He explained that to achieve his targets it was far easier to stop and search aircraft spotters than become involved in punch-ups in the local shopping precinct. He still went through the nause of filling in report forms, etc.
On the other side of the coin, my wife and I have spent many hours photographing the 27R landers at Heathrow by parking on the grass verge opposite the long stay car park near 27R threshold. Plenty of airport security and police vehicles passed within feet of us yet never once were we questioned.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 500
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From: Oslo, Norway
Even at Manchester you can get a "third degree". The Cheshire Police covers the southside of Manchester Airport and they are clearly not as skilled as the Greater Manchester Police spotting true aviation enthusiasts.
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: 1601
Thanks skipness, just tryin to make a point thats all. If they want to while away the hours that way, then im all for it, its just im an airport employee too, and because of certain events in the past, I feel like the criminal every time i go into work (no milk, no yoghurt no blah blah) they just dont need a helping hand if you get my point. and its not just those either, journo's with a story to sell can be as dangerous....TRUST NO ONE !!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 470
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From: over here
LN-KGL
You really want to get yourself acquainted with the facts behind the Greek planespotters episode.
1) They had permission to visit the bases
2) They did not take photos
3) The Greek Air Force actually don't seem to mind people taking pictures at open days anymore
Before you call people stupid, try a bit of research.
You really want to get yourself acquainted with the facts behind the Greek planespotters episode.
1) They had permission to visit the bases
2) They did not take photos
3) The Greek Air Force actually don't seem to mind people taking pictures at open days anymore
Before you call people stupid, try a bit of research.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 500
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From: Oslo, Norway
OK Nopax,thanx, my comment was a bit harsh, but then the incident happened only two months after 9/11. We end up talking about intelligence here.
Three of us faced a similar dilemma. We arrived Leeds Bradford Airport on the evening of 9 August 2006 while on a spotter trip. We stayed the night at Travelodge close to the airport and the next morning was very silent - the only thing we heard were birds singing and police cars rushing by. After a team meeting that morning we decided not to visit the planned airports that day. We had breakfast at LBA, got our rental car and left for North Yorkshire and the "heart beat country". The two next days we visited aviation museums (Yorkshire Air Museum and RAF Museum Cosford) before making a short visit to the Avation Viewing Park at MAN before we returned home with Ryanair from Liverpool. We boarded the aircraft with a transparent plastic bag with RAF Museum Cosford printed on it containing a passport, a boarding card receipt and a wallet. I can't show any pictures from the last day since all photo equipment had to be packed down in the checked in suitcase. MOL must have cried that day too, he was not allowed to take extra pay for heavy suitcases and there wasn't anything on board to sell - not even one bottle of water
Here is a quote from the first BBC article about the case, and it clearly says 'Film seized'
Three of us faced a similar dilemma. We arrived Leeds Bradford Airport on the evening of 9 August 2006 while on a spotter trip. We stayed the night at Travelodge close to the airport and the next morning was very silent - the only thing we heard were birds singing and police cars rushing by. After a team meeting that morning we decided not to visit the planned airports that day. We had breakfast at LBA, got our rental car and left for North Yorkshire and the "heart beat country". The two next days we visited aviation museums (Yorkshire Air Museum and RAF Museum Cosford) before making a short visit to the Avation Viewing Park at MAN before we returned home with Ryanair from Liverpool. We boarded the aircraft with a transparent plastic bag with RAF Museum Cosford printed on it containing a passport, a boarding card receipt and a wallet. I can't show any pictures from the last day since all photo equipment had to be packed down in the checked in suitcase. MOL must have cried that day too, he was not allowed to take extra pay for heavy suitcases and there wasn't anything on board to sell - not even one bottle of water
Here is a quote from the first BBC article about the case, and it clearly says 'Film seized'
UK tourists detained in Greece
The arrests came after an air show
By Paul Wood in Athens
Twelve British citizens have been arrested in Greece and may face charges of spying.
The twelve, eleven men and one woman, are being held in a jail in Kalamata, in the southern Peloponnese.
They are due to appear in court on Monday.
British diplomats in Athens are puzzled and, in the words of one source, deeply baffled as to the exact circumstances behind their detention.
They were arrested on Thursday, near the air base at Kalamata, where there had just been an air show.
'Film seized'
The original charge was taking photographs in a restricted area, although British officials are concerned that this has now been hardened to a charge of spying.
The group have told diplomats they didn't have cameras, only binoculars.
But Greek sources say that film has been seized, showing pictures of aircraft.
The 12 are being held in the local jail attached to the police station in Kalamata, where conditions are said to be good.
Their lawyer has reportedly expressed confidence that the whole affair will turn out to be a misunderstanding - plane-spotting gone wrong, and not a major spying scandal.
The arrests came after an air show
By Paul Wood in Athens
Twelve British citizens have been arrested in Greece and may face charges of spying.
The twelve, eleven men and one woman, are being held in a jail in Kalamata, in the southern Peloponnese.
They are due to appear in court on Monday.
British diplomats in Athens are puzzled and, in the words of one source, deeply baffled as to the exact circumstances behind their detention.
They were arrested on Thursday, near the air base at Kalamata, where there had just been an air show.
'Film seized'
The original charge was taking photographs in a restricted area, although British officials are concerned that this has now been hardened to a charge of spying.
The group have told diplomats they didn't have cameras, only binoculars.
But Greek sources say that film has been seized, showing pictures of aircraft.
The 12 are being held in the local jail attached to the police station in Kalamata, where conditions are said to be good.
Their lawyer has reportedly expressed confidence that the whole affair will turn out to be a misunderstanding - plane-spotting gone wrong, and not a major spying scandal.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 470
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From: over here
Correct, film was taken; from cameras that had been left in the minibus as the group had been told in advance that photography would not be allowed. The films, when developed, were found to contain pictures from the Athens museum (permitted) and some shots of retired aircraft taken in a civilian scrapyard. The fact that all charges were eventually dropped confirmed that the whole saga was the result of a policeman who was trying to gain some 'brownie points' by getting innocent people arrested. Once this had happened neither he nor the Greek Airforce officer who was behind the arrest were willing to back down.
The group members were well aware of the post-9/11 situation, and indeed had contacted the authorities in Greece during September asking if the trip would need to be cancelled. They were told, in writing, that they would still be welcomed. Some welcome.
The group members were well aware of the post-9/11 situation, and indeed had contacted the authorities in Greece during September asking if the trip would need to be cancelled. They were told, in writing, that they would still be welcomed. Some welcome.
