Brave and intelligent Police deal with spotter in discrete and sensible way....er NOT
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when you are driving past in a Police car, how do you determine whether the spotter is a terrorist, or just a spotter. Remember that it IS their job to be suspicious, and, from their point of view, how do you know the spotter is not a terrorist in disguise obtaining information.
Best example is London City. I counted three armed Police GLOWERING at people last time I was in the very small terminal. Two at the top of the stairs and one at the door, the one at the door had THREE PCSOs who were unconsciously mimicking the macho pose clutching their stab vests at the shoulders with their beady eyes peering out from their caps as their noses were so high in the air. It was like Mr MacKay from Porridge.....pure comedy gold on one level. I don't deny the importance of the task, I seriously question the abilities and judgement of some of the people we are giving a uniform to.
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BBFRIEND. Well, perhaps you have reason to know more Police than I do. Certainly the ones I have met in East Anglia are well spoken, polite, and efficient. I saw the entrance exam some forty years ago, so perhaps it's changed somewhat. Important not to tar every officer with the same brush perhaps??????
Someone was trying to make the point that if you are carrying a large lens, then you couldn't be mistaken for a terrorist, but, of course, if you were a terrorist trying to obtain info, you wouldn't go around an airport perimeter dressed in a burkha or a habib now, would you???
Someone was trying to make the point that if you are carrying a large lens, then you couldn't be mistaken for a terrorist, but, of course, if you were a terrorist trying to obtain info, you wouldn't go around an airport perimeter dressed in a burkha or a habib now, would you???
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All Police forces in the UK have been for some time now been either trained or made aware of 'Hostile reconnaissance'. A part of this progress is to watch for persons photographing & videoing certain locations, and I am afraid that airports & airfields are right up there at the top of the list along with Government buildings, shopping malls, main line train & tube stations.
Remember this, it is not how but when will the next atrocity take place, because this green & pleasant land will always be a target. And trust me I have been involved in one of the worst.
So get used to being asked by people in authority what you are doing and if you answer back politely you will get treated the same in return.
Remember this, it is not how but when will the next atrocity take place, because this green & pleasant land will always be a target. And trust me I have been involved in one of the worst.
So get used to being asked by people in authority what you are doing and if you answer back politely you will get treated the same in return.
So get used to being asked by people in authority what you are doing and if you answer back politely you will get treated the same in return.
Planemike
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Planemike
The next time you are at an airport take a look at around, could you spot a potential terrorist, or are all asian males suspect. I think not. It has to be done by a process of elimination and spotting 'hostile reconnaissance' is just one way of doing it.
Who would have thought that Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) would have tried to do what he did but someone paying attention caught him out.
The attack on Glasgow Airport by, of all people Doctors, must have had a trial run and reconnaissance carried out before the attack.
Richard Copeland who carried out the nail bombing on the Pub in Old Compton Street was a white British male, but that Pub could easily have been the terminal building at Gatwick or Heathrow.
All I am saying is everybody needs to get used to the authorities asking what they are doing at certain times & locations. You are never going to stop it.
The next time you are at an airport take a look at around, could you spot a potential terrorist, or are all asian males suspect. I think not. It has to be done by a process of elimination and spotting 'hostile reconnaissance' is just one way of doing it.
Who would have thought that Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) would have tried to do what he did but someone paying attention caught him out.
The attack on Glasgow Airport by, of all people Doctors, must have had a trial run and reconnaissance carried out before the attack.
Richard Copeland who carried out the nail bombing on the Pub in Old Compton Street was a white British male, but that Pub could easily have been the terminal building at Gatwick or Heathrow.
All I am saying is everybody needs to get used to the authorities asking what they are doing at certain times & locations. You are never going to stop it.
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I suppose you could say they dealt with the spotter in a "discrete" way--a specific and singular way--but I think what was actually meant was a discreet way.
I'm used to this on U. S. sites and blogs but surprised to see that Mother Tongue speakers are getting just as careless...
I'm used to this on U. S. sites and blogs but surprised to see that Mother Tongue speakers are getting just as careless...
All I am saying is everybody needs to get used to the authorities asking what they are doing at certain times & locations. You are never going to stop it.
Planemike
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Remember this, it is not how but when will the next atrocity take place, because this green & pleasant land will always be a target. And trust me I have been involved in one of the worst.
Richard Ried incidentally was a nutter and was causing concern as soon as the doors were closed. There is NOT a wide conspiracy of British born white European Islamic killers at work out there.
My real concern is the inablilty of the Police to use common sense. They now come across as just box ticking social workers in dayglo yellow or gun/tazer packing rambo types. Something has gone wrong somewhere. Even back home in Scotland, they're just men in black combat uniforms ( and blackshirts !!!! history anyone ? ) that never fail to intimidate.
Richard Copeland who carried out the nail bombing on the Pub in Old Compton Street was a white British male, but that Pub could easily have been the terminal building at Gatwick or Heathrow.
All I am saying is everybody needs to get used to the authorities asking what they are doing at certain times & locations. You are never going to stop it.
All I am saying is everybody needs to get used to the authorities asking what they are doing at certain times & locations. You are never going to stop it.
Option a) Planespotter
Option b) Mass murderer
Do we go Israeli and introduce bag searches at the entrance to Tesco?
Given that in a free society, there IS no way to prevent this sort of "potential attack", what's the result?
Loads of PCSOs and a few token Police raking through your possesions at certain places designated under Section 44, not to prevent an atrocity, but to be seen to be doing something. Should a PCSO open my bag and find a bomb, we're all gonna die regardless. It's security theatre, the real work is done by MI5 / MI6 behind the scenes and out of sight. The men in dayglo Poice uniforms are just part of the pantomime that is security theatre.
Finally, the added danger is that once these people have purpose and budget and we give up hard won freedoms, there is little mechanism for scaling back on security as "you never know" or "just in case" mainly becasue politicians are too scared in case someon points the finger in the remote chance something does happen.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 27th Aug 2009 at 13:21.
Skipness.........thank you for the breath of "common sense".
We should be very wary of giving up our hard won freedoms.
Planemike
We should be very wary of giving up our hard won freedoms.
Planemike
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<<So get used to being asked by people in authority what you are doing and if you answer back politely you will get treated the same in return. >>
My wife and I were extremely polite to the Police Officer who questioned us about looking at aircraft at an airport from a public road and he was polite too. It transpired that he knew an acquaintance of ours who was also a Police Officer and we chatted amiably for a good while. However, it didn't stop him from searching our car and issuing us with a notice stating that we had been searched. We wonder if that is on our "record" and whether it would raise any problems if we ever went into the USA?
He also told us that it was easier for him to achieve his "targets" by questioning the spotters rather than becoming involved in problems at a nearby shopping mall.
My wife and I were extremely polite to the Police Officer who questioned us about looking at aircraft at an airport from a public road and he was polite too. It transpired that he knew an acquaintance of ours who was also a Police Officer and we chatted amiably for a good while. However, it didn't stop him from searching our car and issuing us with a notice stating that we had been searched. We wonder if that is on our "record" and whether it would raise any problems if we ever went into the USA?
He also told us that it was easier for him to achieve his "targets" by questioning the spotters rather than becoming involved in problems at a nearby shopping mall.
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Originally Posted by HD
He also told us that it was easier for him to achieve his "targets" by questioning the spotters rather than becoming involved in problems at a nearby shopping mall.
And while the intrepid officers are busy questioning the blindingly obvious and highly-visible spotters etc., the putative terrorists are doing their 'hostile reconaissance' quietly and unnoticed by all; aforesaid intrepid officers included.
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It is a sad fact that some of these aircraft " enthusiasts " do bring problems upon themselves, sometimes going where they shouldn't just to get a " better picture " to show off on some aviation website. When Obama visited London some of these very clever prople were able to demonstrate and openly publish their ability to track Airforce One across the Atlantic giving precise info on location ETA and flightpath etc. Your average terrorist would have had all the info to carry out an attack on Airforce One with great ease methinks.
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Snaga II I agree with you, but they would not be able to do it if the regulations relating to the use of the radio spectrum were properly policed - and in the UK they are not. Anyone can buy equipment to receive aircraft radio and radar transmissions even though the use of such equipment is illegal!
Snaga II, I think you'll find that Air Force One has some pretty smart defence systems.
HD, what do you propose? Police to make regular house to house searches? Ban the sale of such equipment in the UK? Fine, they'll go and buy them in the USA (and elsewhere). And do you really believe that terrorist plans will rely on spotters' information? I think not.
The reality is that preventing enthusiasts from using said equipment will not improve security against terrorism one iota. Total waste of time and just about as effective as the latest 'booze asbos'.
HD, what do you propose? Police to make regular house to house searches? Ban the sale of such equipment in the UK? Fine, they'll go and buy them in the USA (and elsewhere). And do you really believe that terrorist plans will rely on spotters' information? I think not.
The reality is that preventing enthusiasts from using said equipment will not improve security against terrorism one iota. Total waste of time and just about as effective as the latest 'booze asbos'.