Flight Plans
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Flight Plans
Hello All
Was just watching Air Crash Investigation on the collision between a Legacy and a Gol Boeing 737 over Brazil.
What I am interested to know is who is ultimately responsible for ensuring Flight Plans are adhered to in Flight?
The Legacy crew had filed a Flight Plan which stated that it would fly at 37,000 ft until over Brasilia and then descend to 36,000 ft until it landed at Mannaus.
But once over Brasilia it stayed at 37,000 ft and ended up colliding with the Gol Boeing.
I know that Brazil ATC undwerwent a lot of changes after this accident and I am not criticising anyone (not my place anyhow).
So should the pilots have reminded Brazil ATC that they needed to descend or should Brazil ATC have instructed them to descend?
Would be interested to hear your thoughts and expert views.
Cheers
Donnlass
Was just watching Air Crash Investigation on the collision between a Legacy and a Gol Boeing 737 over Brazil.
What I am interested to know is who is ultimately responsible for ensuring Flight Plans are adhered to in Flight?
The Legacy crew had filed a Flight Plan which stated that it would fly at 37,000 ft until over Brasilia and then descend to 36,000 ft until it landed at Mannaus.
But once over Brasilia it stayed at 37,000 ft and ended up colliding with the Gol Boeing.
I know that Brazil ATC undwerwent a lot of changes after this accident and I am not criticising anyone (not my place anyhow).
So should the pilots have reminded Brazil ATC that they needed to descend or should Brazil ATC have instructed them to descend?
Would be interested to hear your thoughts and expert views.
Cheers
Donnlass
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The Flight Plan in an indication by the pilot to ATC of how he intends to conduct his flight in terms of requested route, speed, altitude(s), etc. Although the pilot is ultimately responsible for the flight, ATC will determine at what altitude they will clear the flight. If the cleared altitude is not the one requested by the pilot on the Flight Plan, or if it is unsuitable due to weather, he can request a change and ATC will then decide if such a change is possible, taking into account other traffic.
I cannot comment on the Brazilian episode but in general terms, any change in altitude in Controlled Airspace must be co-ordinated with ATC.
Certain conditions prevail if, for example, an aircraft suffers communication failure but that can be quite complicated depending on local regulations.
I cannot comment on the Brazilian episode but in general terms, any change in altitude in Controlled Airspace must be co-ordinated with ATC.
Certain conditions prevail if, for example, an aircraft suffers communication failure but that can be quite complicated depending on local regulations.
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So should the pilots have reminded Brazil ATC that they needed to descend or should Brazil ATC have instructed them to descend?
The Flight Plan is a plan, nothing more. Once airborne, you stay at your cleared level until cleared otherwise! You don't just got descending at will,
You could argue that the Legacy guys should have asked ATC if they needed to climb/descend 1000' due to the change in magnetic track.
The more prominent factors (in my opinion) were the deselection of Mode S and the loss of communications with ATC. Even at the same altitude and on reciprocal headings they were still damn unlucky to collide.
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Donlas,
A flight plan is really just an application form. It's a way of applying to air traffic control for a clearance to operate in a particular airspace. The application includes basic information that ATC will use to plan ahead for that flight operation. The flight plan let's air traffic control know what type of aircrat, times of departure, equipment on board, fuel, requested altitude (highest planned altitude), intended routing, etc.
Once a flight plan has been received, ATC considers the request, then issues a clearance which may, or may not resemble the flight plan which has been submitted. The aircraft will be cleared to an initial altitude, invariably much lower than what's been filed, an initial fix, etc...or sometimes the clearance is simply "cleared as filed."
Once the aircraft in the air, amendments and changes are very common. Vectors may be applied, in which the aircraft is given a heading to fly...not at all something on the flight plan. ATC may assign various altitudes as necessary, climbing or descending the aircraft to meet the air traffic needs for a particular area.
Once in flight, the flight plan has limited use, and it's in the event of a lost communication situation in which a pilot may fall back on the flight plan itself as a way of knowing exactly what course of action to take...but even then it's the last choice. If a pilot loses communication capability, for example, the routing will be the present clearance, or the routing given in an "expect" clearance, or if nothing has changed from as filed,then in the filed plan. Same for altitudes: highest of presently assigned, told to expect, or filed, for a given flight sector.
Think of a flight plan as a concept (frequently subject to change) or an initial application, and you'll have a clearer picture as to the role it plays.
A flight plan is really just an application form. It's a way of applying to air traffic control for a clearance to operate in a particular airspace. The application includes basic information that ATC will use to plan ahead for that flight operation. The flight plan let's air traffic control know what type of aircrat, times of departure, equipment on board, fuel, requested altitude (highest planned altitude), intended routing, etc.
Once a flight plan has been received, ATC considers the request, then issues a clearance which may, or may not resemble the flight plan which has been submitted. The aircraft will be cleared to an initial altitude, invariably much lower than what's been filed, an initial fix, etc...or sometimes the clearance is simply "cleared as filed."
Once the aircraft in the air, amendments and changes are very common. Vectors may be applied, in which the aircraft is given a heading to fly...not at all something on the flight plan. ATC may assign various altitudes as necessary, climbing or descending the aircraft to meet the air traffic needs for a particular area.
Once in flight, the flight plan has limited use, and it's in the event of a lost communication situation in which a pilot may fall back on the flight plan itself as a way of knowing exactly what course of action to take...but even then it's the last choice. If a pilot loses communication capability, for example, the routing will be the present clearance, or the routing given in an "expect" clearance, or if nothing has changed from as filed,then in the filed plan. Same for altitudes: highest of presently assigned, told to expect, or filed, for a given flight sector.
Think of a flight plan as a concept (frequently subject to change) or an initial application, and you'll have a clearer picture as to the role it plays.
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Thanks all for your explanations on that
Certainly will help when watching other similar programmes or discussing ATC with my dad, he had me beat on this one!!
Cheers
Donnlass
Certainly will help when watching other similar programmes or discussing ATC with my dad, he had me beat on this one!!
Cheers
Donnlass
