Jet2 757 towed into Loop at LBA
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Jet2 757 towed into Loop at LBA
At about 11:00 am today I observed this plane being towed from the stands into the Loop at the North end of 32-14. Seems an unusual movement.
Any explanation?
Thanks Mike
Any explanation?
Thanks Mike
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Jet 2 engineers may well have taxy approval however if their anything like the company i work for engineers taxying aircraft is a last resort, the beancounters have decided in view of reducing engine start cycles fuel burn etc tugs are normally to be used
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I think the Etihad A340-600 incident at Toulouse has changed things. When it jumped the chocks, nobody thought to chop the power. It took 13 seconds to hit the wall. Without wishing to offend, anytime an aeroplane has to move under its own power, I think a pilot will be required.
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I don't think it helped that they ran up all four engines at the same time either 
13 seconds is a bloody long time too, why on earth did no one have their hands on the throttles and their feet covering the brakes?? I'm no expert on Airbus as you can tell from my username but surely thats just common sense!! Sorry to digress
13 seconds is a bloody long time too, why on earth did no one have their hands on the throttles and their feet covering the brakes?? I'm no expert on Airbus as you can tell from my username but surely thats just common sense!! Sorry to digress
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There was an experienced Airbus run-up engineer present on the flight deck. I think in those seconds, a pilot would have chopped power first. The fact they were non pilots meant they evidently looked for another solution first...which wasn't there. I think that accident will affect all future taxi arrangements.
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I dont think for one minute that the incident at Toulouse will change anything, engineers have been carrying out full power runs and taxying aircraft from day one with very few problems , im sure if someone has the nous to be able to pass the level of technical examinations licensed engineers are required to pass they can with the required sim /OJT training be more than capable of operating engines or taxying aircraft safely, and i speak as someone who held a pilots licence in a previous life but never a engineers licence ( far to technical for me im afraid!)
What should happen is someone needs to look very closely at the training those people involved recieved as clearly it wasnt adequate .
What should happen is someone needs to look very closely at the training those people involved recieved as clearly it wasnt adequate .
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engineers have been carrying out full power runs and taxying aircraft from day one with very few problems
Out of interest, anyone have any idea of the financial settlement of that incident? Who pays for the mullared nice shiny-but-dented A340-600?
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In response to engineers not gaining training, at the airline I work, before we can taxi an aircraft we have to go through full power run training. This is then followed by a training captain on the type showing us how to taxi the aircraft. Then he sits in the second seat whilst we carry out various taxi manoeuvres around the airport. Every night at one of our bases an engineer taxi's at least 1 aircraft about 1 mile for maintenance.
Im not sure of the layout of the run pen at Airbus, but doing full power runs I can be sure I would not be pointing at a wall. As for what went on in the flight deck Im not sure but where I work, 1 engineers job is to look outside the window constantly to help notice if your moving etc.
Im not sure of the layout of the run pen at Airbus, but doing full power runs I can be sure I would not be pointing at a wall. As for what went on in the flight deck Im not sure but where I work, 1 engineers job is to look outside the window constantly to help notice if your moving etc.
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Not a new thing engineers taxiing aircraft. My father, 94 years young, tells the story of taxiing a fully bombed-up Lancaster at RAF Scampton during WW2. The bomb load had not been secured correctly, and some of the bombs dropped out of the aircraft onto the taxiway. "I just kept going", he said....
Dad was an engineer (engines), not aircrew, and they were not actually allowed to taxi the aircraft, but they were so short of aircrews that they just got on and did it, otherwise the whole shooting match would have ground to a halt.
He was had up in front of the CO, but nothing came of it.
Slightly off-topic, but I hope you dont mind a small diversion.
EGCA
Dad was an engineer (engines), not aircrew, and they were not actually allowed to taxi the aircraft, but they were so short of aircrews that they just got on and did it, otherwise the whole shooting match would have ground to a halt.
He was had up in front of the CO, but nothing came of it.
Slightly off-topic, but I hope you dont mind a small diversion.
EGCA
Last edited by EGCA; 1st May 2009 at 14:32.
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Don't forget the RAF Ground Engineer at Lyneham who was carrying out a ground run on a Lightning............. he ended up doing an inprovised circuit!!
My father was based there on 99 SQN at the time. Afterwards he and a few mates rang the CO of the Lightning Squadron to ask when the next 'flying display' was!!
My father was based there on 99 SQN at the time. Afterwards he and a few mates rang the CO of the Lightning Squadron to ask when the next 'flying display' was!!
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Ive had taxi approval on A330/ b757/a321 for years as have most engineers in my company your required to hold full power run approval and then its a matter of a short training course and then the fleet Captain has to check you out during a practical session if he is satisfied then the approval is granted.
Last edited by smudgethecat; 1st May 2009 at 18:10.
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Second that smudge, have worked for several airlines, some allowed enginers to taxi some not.
Personally had 747 classic , 737, 757 and A320 series taxi approval.
A340/330 744 run only as airline did not allow engineers to taxi.
Was tech instructor for a few years and trained fellow engineers in taxi and eng run, classroom review of all systems, 2 X 4 hour sessions in a fixed base sim followed by 1 X 4 hour seesion in full motion, then a taxi check ride on the aircraft.
If good training is provided and candidates are screened properly (it's not for all).
I was always told insurance was an issue.
Taxiing after maintenance has prevented many delays, towing is slow and becomes an issue if having to cross active runways, if under it's own power the a/c can expedite the crossing between arrivals/departures.
Personally had 747 classic , 737, 757 and A320 series taxi approval.
A340/330 744 run only as airline did not allow engineers to taxi.
Was tech instructor for a few years and trained fellow engineers in taxi and eng run, classroom review of all systems, 2 X 4 hour sessions in a fixed base sim followed by 1 X 4 hour seesion in full motion, then a taxi check ride on the aircraft.
If good training is provided and candidates are screened properly (it's not for all).
I was always told insurance was an issue.
Taxiing after maintenance has prevented many delays, towing is slow and becomes an issue if having to cross active runways, if under it's own power the a/c can expedite the crossing between arrivals/departures.
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Rainboe
'I don't think so. Where did you get this? I have not heard of engineers taxiing aeroplanes, ever!'
Oh, I used to work (non-aircrew or engineering) for one of the last UK 1-11 operators. Many an engine run, (often refused by Airfield ops) carried out by a taxi back to stand, by taxi qualified Engineers.
Then, according to a shift supervisor, 2 day, 6 monthly sim required to keep current, so it fell by the wayside, I guess for insurance reasons.
Oh, I used to work (non-aircrew or engineering) for one of the last UK 1-11 operators. Many an engine run, (often refused by Airfield ops) carried out by a taxi back to stand, by taxi qualified Engineers.
Then, according to a shift supervisor, 2 day, 6 monthly sim required to keep current, so it fell by the wayside, I guess for insurance reasons.
