Sonic Cruiser vs A380
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From: UK
This is Rumours & News Forum. Please read the introductory babble- it does ask you to restrict what is posted here. If you want to endlessly discuss the merits of both aeroplanes, there are other Forums to do so. In the meantime, let's stick to Rumours & News.
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Manchester
I suspect it will be horses for courses. Where the extra speed will count, the Cruiser will prevail but at log-jam runway airports like EGLL the Airbus will be king.
Q.- will T5 have all the extra airbridges needed for A380?, will it be able to cope with 2000+ items of baggage all carouselling(is their such a word?) at once?
With the A380 we will have an aircraft that will result in an overhaul/change in airport procedures not seen since 1969 and the B747.
Q.- will T5 have all the extra airbridges needed for A380?, will it be able to cope with 2000+ items of baggage all carouselling(is their such a word?) at once?
With the A380 we will have an aircraft that will result in an overhaul/change in airport procedures not seen since 1969 and the B747.
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From: UK
It says: "As this is a very busy forum please limit new topics to items of news or rumour related to public air transport. If you have a specific question then please use either the Questions Forum or the Terms & Endearment Forum for pay or conditions in specific airlines. For Technical issues please use the Tech Log Forum. Etc. etc. " There is a 'Questions' forum if you want a 'chewing the cud- middle of the night- got nothing better to do' theoretical discussion! This is a News area.
[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Notso Fantastic ]</p>
[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Notso Fantastic ]</p>
Moderator
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From: UK
I'm sorry, but this is a non-issue.
The 380 is a big transport operating about 0.8M, the cruiser is a smaller transport operating about 0.95M. They are aiming at different markets, both of which are healthy(ish).
Nobody is going to buy a cruiser for a major low-cost high utilisation tourist route. Nobody is likely to buy an A380 for an executive route between two major financial centres.
G
The 380 is a big transport operating about 0.8M, the cruiser is a smaller transport operating about 0.95M. They are aiming at different markets, both of which are healthy(ish).
Nobody is going to buy a cruiser for a major low-cost high utilisation tourist route. Nobody is likely to buy an A380 for an executive route between two major financial centres.
G
Rebel PPRuNer
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,839
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From: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
These threads remind me of those sad "Batman vs Captain America" or "Alien v Predator" stuff elsewhere on the internet.
A380, biggest in class - Yes.
SC, fastest in class - No.
A380, anybody ordering - Yes [100 so far].
SC, same question - No.
A380, any airports suitable - MUC and FRA for two, LH building like mad.
SC, same question - Not unless someones building jetways that are double jointed or summat.
Now, A400M vs Sonic Cruiser - possibilities for "fictional contests" there...
A380, biggest in class - Yes.
SC, fastest in class - No.
A380, anybody ordering - Yes [100 so far].
SC, same question - No.
A380, any airports suitable - MUC and FRA for two, LH building like mad.
SC, same question - Not unless someones building jetways that are double jointed or summat.
Now, A400M vs Sonic Cruiser - possibilities for "fictional contests" there...
Joined: Jul 1998
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From: USA
MarkD:
I guess you are a Rebel PPRuNer. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> You do realize almost everything you say about the Sonic Cruiser can be used to dscribe the A3XX five years ago.
If the Sonic Cruiser is built, it will not directly compete against the A380. Each has a different role in the marketplace. Nonetheless, I do believe the Sonic Cruiser will have a bigger impact than the A380, that is, if Boeing does build the Sonic Cruiser.
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: casual observer ]</p>
I guess you are a Rebel PPRuNer. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> You do realize almost everything you say about the Sonic Cruiser can be used to dscribe the A3XX five years ago.
If the Sonic Cruiser is built, it will not directly compete against the A380. Each has a different role in the marketplace. Nonetheless, I do believe the Sonic Cruiser will have a bigger impact than the A380, that is, if Boeing does build the Sonic Cruiser.
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: casual observer ]</p>
Union Goon
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: New Jersey, USA
At a recent AA company meeting 380 and sonic cruiser came up.
CEO's position, 380 is a white elephant and American Airlines wants no part of it.
Sonic Cruiser? Even post 9/11 AA is still willing to committ to the entire first 3 years of production, as long as it is exclusive, otherwise 200 jets if everyone else gets em.
Fuel is way cheaper than manpower. AA feels the need for speed.
About 1/2 the gates at the AA terminal at JFK could take the Sonic cruiser now (Big range of movement, just retract the thing fully instead of casually parking em like they do now. some of them you could just about back a 777 into and still get a gate to the front of the plane)
Cheers
Wino (Already got my bid in <G> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
CEO's position, 380 is a white elephant and American Airlines wants no part of it.
Sonic Cruiser? Even post 9/11 AA is still willing to committ to the entire first 3 years of production, as long as it is exclusive, otherwise 200 jets if everyone else gets em.
Fuel is way cheaper than manpower. AA feels the need for speed.
About 1/2 the gates at the AA terminal at JFK could take the Sonic cruiser now (Big range of movement, just retract the thing fully instead of casually parking em like they do now. some of them you could just about back a 777 into and still get a gate to the front of the plane)
Cheers
Wino (Already got my bid in <G> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Fantasy Island
Asking AA if they want the A380 is a bit like asking BMI if they want it - AA have no need for an aircraft of that size, most of their routes being point-to-point.
The carriers which will decide the A380's fate are NW, UA, BA, JAL, Korean, Qantas etc....i.e. everyone who operates Jumbo's now.
The carriers which will decide the A380's fate are NW, UA, BA, JAL, Korean, Qantas etc....i.e. everyone who operates Jumbo's now.
Union Goon
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,097
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From: New Jersey, USA
AA is the most heavily hub and spoke airline in the world. They do virtually no point to point.
AA's corporate policy is that you can't make money with a 4 engine airplane, originally used to justify MD/11 DC-10s when they retired their 747s, now extended to 777 over the MD-11 etc.
What AA is, however, is the businessman's airline, and as such have no interst in operating cattle cars as all the cheap tickets detract from the traveling experience for the businessman who actually pays the lions share of the revenue. They would rather leave the priceline.com pax behind and take more freight which is always ontime and rarely causes a return to the gate which is exactly why they pulled all those seats out of the aircraft to create "More room through coach"
AA hubs out of Dallas Chicago Laguardia Miami Sanjuan San Jose St Louis Raliegh Durham etc....
cheers
Wino
AA's corporate policy is that you can't make money with a 4 engine airplane, originally used to justify MD/11 DC-10s when they retired their 747s, now extended to 777 over the MD-11 etc.
What AA is, however, is the businessman's airline, and as such have no interst in operating cattle cars as all the cheap tickets detract from the traveling experience for the businessman who actually pays the lions share of the revenue. They would rather leave the priceline.com pax behind and take more freight which is always ontime and rarely causes a return to the gate which is exactly why they pulled all those seats out of the aircraft to create "More room through coach"
AA hubs out of Dallas Chicago Laguardia Miami Sanjuan San Jose St Louis Raliegh Durham etc....
cheers
Wino
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 572
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From: Around
The truth of the matter is that the SC / A380 are not mutually exclusive. And whilst the A380 has signed almost 100 orders, various sites around Europe are constructing new buildings to cater for it, and metal is due to be cut shortly, Boeing is still fine tuning the design and in the process of selling the aircraft to interested airlines. That doesn't mean the SC ain't coming, just that the design has not been finalised and thus no order can be taken. Remember the SC was launched just about the time when Boeing realised that nobody would buy the stretched 747 which was intended to compete head to head with the A380. As any sound business would do, they turned their attention elsewhere and produced the SC concept. Not a bad idea from my point of view.
So when the industry turns around, the A380 will be ready to enter service and hopefully the SC will follow a few years behind it, offering both airlines and their costumers a choice. Capitalism at it's best.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Flip Flop Flyer ]</p>
So when the industry turns around, the A380 will be ready to enter service and hopefully the SC will follow a few years behind it, offering both airlines and their costumers a choice. Capitalism at it's best.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Flip Flop Flyer ]</p>
Rebel PPRuNer
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
Wino
wot about those canards? That's why I was thinking of the jetways.
And would SC cut that much off CONUS p-to-p?
Thought the attraction was for trans-atlantic/transpacific??
wot about those canards? That's why I was thinking of the jetways.
And would SC cut that much off CONUS p-to-p?
Thought the attraction was for trans-atlantic/transpacific??
Union Goon
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,097
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From: New Jersey, USA
Sonic cruiser would make transcon TURNS possible. That would immediately double the productivity of crews AND remove hotel expenses completely. It would be huge. 1 plane could do 2 round trips in a day and then some...
Right now transcon lines from NY involve a leg to the west coast, sit 30 hours come back... Not very efficient use of resources.
I know my airline would burn tankers full of fuel to get that kind of productivity out of its crews and aircraft.
Cheers. .Wino
Right now transcon lines from NY involve a leg to the west coast, sit 30 hours come back... Not very efficient use of resources.
I know my airline would burn tankers full of fuel to get that kind of productivity out of its crews and aircraft.
Cheers. .Wino
