Cockpit secruity
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
Cockpit secruity
I am a pilot for a major European carrier. We have been recieving very little support or action regarding beefing up access to the cockpit and what a plan of action could be in case the next terroist or copy cat crazy tries to take over our aeroplane. In our company the forums have been closed on this topic. Our union forums are resticting the sharing of information due to secruity.
This has lead me to conclude that I will have to look after myself. I am in the process of mentally preparing myself to fight for my life, and looking at the possibilites that I have at my disposal. I would like to hear from others how they are preparing themselves for the worst case.
One option I have is manoeuvering the aircraft. This must be agreed upon by the whole crew. A fedex crew managed to stop a ex-pilot, black belt, ex military crazy who was armed from crashing their aeroplane. That started with the copilot half rolling the aircraft. Many of you have probably never flown with more than 60° aob. Well it's time you learnt. Pushing negative G to paste a problem to the ceiling doesn't mean that you are going to crash afterwards. You can push neg g's in a turn reducing altitude loss or upside down.
Remember a 60° level turn uses 2 g . A 100kg man now has to carry his own weight to be able to move. Those of you who have played rugby and trained carring each other know how hard that is. I can use a gear pin in my hand as a weapon, either by holding the T within my fingers or simply grabing it to support my fist.
There are many ways that we have to save our lives. Firsty realize that you may have to fight for your life, let that sink in. I have read many other commments on this forum with gung-ho phases how about how you would love to have a go at anyone who tried anything on your aircraft. Well, that's a step, now it's time to get past the emotion and prepare ourselves for the worst. I'm looking for shared experiences and idees that will benefit us all, so please keep your retoric in check in your replies to this posting.
Thanks.
This has lead me to conclude that I will have to look after myself. I am in the process of mentally preparing myself to fight for my life, and looking at the possibilites that I have at my disposal. I would like to hear from others how they are preparing themselves for the worst case.
One option I have is manoeuvering the aircraft. This must be agreed upon by the whole crew. A fedex crew managed to stop a ex-pilot, black belt, ex military crazy who was armed from crashing their aeroplane. That started with the copilot half rolling the aircraft. Many of you have probably never flown with more than 60° aob. Well it's time you learnt. Pushing negative G to paste a problem to the ceiling doesn't mean that you are going to crash afterwards. You can push neg g's in a turn reducing altitude loss or upside down.
Remember a 60° level turn uses 2 g . A 100kg man now has to carry his own weight to be able to move. Those of you who have played rugby and trained carring each other know how hard that is. I can use a gear pin in my hand as a weapon, either by holding the T within my fingers or simply grabing it to support my fist.
There are many ways that we have to save our lives. Firsty realize that you may have to fight for your life, let that sink in. I have read many other commments on this forum with gung-ho phases how about how you would love to have a go at anyone who tried anything on your aircraft. Well, that's a step, now it's time to get past the emotion and prepare ourselves for the worst. I'm looking for shared experiences and idees that will benefit us all, so please keep your retoric in check in your replies to this posting.
Thanks.
Person Of Interest
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
From: Keystone Heights, Florida
I think one of the best defense strategies should be implimented at boarding time.
Get out of your seat, Captain, and personally observe the boarding process. You know what to look for.
Remember when the discussions were all about letting durnk and abusive pax on board. The ground staff seemed to prefer to "transfer" the problem from the ground staff to the cabin crew.
This is the same sort of situation. Passengers aren't used to the scrutinty of "The Man" checking them out as they board. Your careful observations could trigger a reaction that would invite further investigation.
As for agressive manuvers or aerobatics, well, I think that's all covered on another thread...
Get out of your seat, Captain, and personally observe the boarding process. You know what to look for.
Remember when the discussions were all about letting durnk and abusive pax on board. The ground staff seemed to prefer to "transfer" the problem from the ground staff to the cabin crew.
This is the same sort of situation. Passengers aren't used to the scrutinty of "The Man" checking them out as they board. Your careful observations could trigger a reaction that would invite further investigation.
As for agressive manuvers or aerobatics, well, I think that's all covered on another thread...
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I think your idea about maneuvering the aircraft to stop the sucker/s is a good one.
I suggest also that, knowing the threat on board, one pilot should take care only to fly the plane and the other should use any available mean to protect the other. "You fly, I fight" as an american Captain said.
We should be armed as well, a small caliber (.22!) shouldn't be to dangerous for the stucture.
We should have a self-defense training.
We should fly with a flying suit instead of our nice but very unconfortable uniform, especially the tie (very dangerous if grabbed).
At the moment I fly with a pepper spray with me, but is it going to be useful in case I need it?
Bottom line: we need safety on board, we have to restore safety with any mean, we have to be trained to use the "mean" (otherwise we can be more dangerous than the hijacker!!!)
Happy landings!
I suggest also that, knowing the threat on board, one pilot should take care only to fly the plane and the other should use any available mean to protect the other. "You fly, I fight" as an american Captain said.
We should be armed as well, a small caliber (.22!) shouldn't be to dangerous for the stucture.
We should have a self-defense training.
We should fly with a flying suit instead of our nice but very unconfortable uniform, especially the tie (very dangerous if grabbed).
At the moment I fly with a pepper spray with me, but is it going to be useful in case I need it?
Bottom line: we need safety on board, we have to restore safety with any mean, we have to be trained to use the "mean" (otherwise we can be more dangerous than the hijacker!!!)
Happy landings!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Behind the firewall
You guys move on!!!Of course everything changed 9/11 but life goes on.
I dont think arming ourselves solves anything, weapons can always turn against you in a fight.
Instead, we can include something neat in our prefligt briefing, a course of action in case some nut tries something stupid!!!
Remember 60°=2g, a bunt also works wonders. I know it sounds brutal for those who are not strapped in but what is the price we are willing to pay to prevent another WTC
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
From: Bothell WA
Raisbeck Engineering's Hardened Cockpit Security System
http://www.raisbeck.com/publications/pub38.html
http://www.raisbeck.com/publications/pub38.html
Sims Fly Virtually
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
From: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
The "hardened door" looks impressive 
But if the FAA still requires all the Effays to carry a key to it, it won't help much will it
Has that silly requirement been looked at again? I said it was a stoopid idea the first time I heard about it 3 years ago
But if the FAA still requires all the Effays to carry a key to it, it won't help much will it Has that silly requirement been looked at again? I said it was a stoopid idea the first time I heard about it 3 years ago
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: somewhere out there
No matter what happens, the cockpit crew should remain....in the cockpit. We are not even allowed to carry nail clippers on board anymore....hmmmm....I wonder who can one kill someone with nailclippers...I surely have no idea how. 
Anyway, let's just try to enjoy our flights like we always have instead of getting all stressed out
won't really help being stress-out, right? 
Anyway, let's just try to enjoy our flights like we always have instead of getting all stressed out
won't really help being stress-out, right?
