Why close all the topics? They are there anyway!
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Why close all the topics? They are there anyway!
Why do you close half of all the topic in tech log?? They are still there anyway, does one line in the topic overview disturb you that much? (oups - now this thread will be moved to questions 
). If you don't like the subject, then read another one.
Half of what pprune is about is social relations. The answers to most questions that arise in the different topics in this furum can be found in books anyway.
So what's the point? Why not just shut pprune down all together, now that you are at it?
:o
-------
Just to give an example. The topic "Simulated Engine Failure – Throttle or Mixture" is very relevant in tech log. Why did you close it. There are 35000+ users here, you can't expect all to read every topic ever posted. Surely there will be duplicates. I'm not an instructor so I never read in the instructors forum, however, I do have to practice engine failures once in a while, therefore the topic is relevant to me (and probably a lot of others), even though I'm or they aren't fligh instructors. Stop playing policeman just because someone made you a moderator. Do your job stop bashing and flames etc. but don't close threads randomly
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: cosmo kramer ]
). If you don't like the subject, then read another one.Half of what pprune is about is social relations. The answers to most questions that arise in the different topics in this furum can be found in books anyway.
So what's the point? Why not just shut pprune down all together, now that you are at it?
:o
-------
Just to give an example. The topic "Simulated Engine Failure – Throttle or Mixture" is very relevant in tech log. Why did you close it. There are 35000+ users here, you can't expect all to read every topic ever posted. Surely there will be duplicates. I'm not an instructor so I never read in the instructors forum, however, I do have to practice engine failures once in a while, therefore the topic is relevant to me (and probably a lot of others), even though I'm or they aren't fligh instructors. Stop playing policeman just because someone made you a moderator. Do your job stop bashing and flames etc. but don't close threads randomly
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: cosmo kramer ]
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Have to agree Cosmo.
I posted a question about what I consider a safety issue on Jep charts. Kinda technical I thought. Are these charts laid out in a technically correct way.
It's been moved to the relative obscurity of questions where it is currently in poor health and expected to pass away soon. It is possible that if it flourished it could change something important (in my opinion. )
411A approached the company on the issue and was stonewalled. Possibly, airing it on this forum coupled with product liability might change that. I can't believe no-one from Jeps watches this forum.
Was it moved because it was phrased as a question? Nearly every other thread on this forum is initiated by an interogative statement. Should they all be moved to questions?
Bet this one goes to Jet Blast
I posted a question about what I consider a safety issue on Jep charts. Kinda technical I thought. Are these charts laid out in a technically correct way.
It's been moved to the relative obscurity of questions where it is currently in poor health and expected to pass away soon. It is possible that if it flourished it could change something important (in my opinion. )
411A approached the company on the issue and was stonewalled. Possibly, airing it on this forum coupled with product liability might change that. I can't believe no-one from Jeps watches this forum.
Was it moved because it was phrased as a question? Nearly every other thread on this forum is initiated by an interogative statement. Should they all be moved to questions?
Bet this one goes to Jet Blast
The topics wern't closed, they were moved, with an explanitory comment at the end of them to furthur illustrate this. While I could have moved them completely, haveing them dissapear in this forum I left a copy of them here so that those interested can chase them to their new home if interested.
I do recognise that one of the great features of PPRuNe is the maintenance of an online community, and all that involves, however it is also necessary to keep topics appropriate to the forum title - other wise there would be no need for forum titles, and the ease they give you when searching for information.
Sometimes the need for maintaining the community, and maitaining the integrity of a frum conflict, and there will always be different opinions for what is appropriate and what isn't.
The thing is that as moderator my opinion matters more than yours does in some situations
But I do listen
Those that wish to vote on the issue can do so here, and I will have a chuckle while reading the various opinions.
I do recognise that one of the great features of PPRuNe is the maintenance of an online community, and all that involves, however it is also necessary to keep topics appropriate to the forum title - other wise there would be no need for forum titles, and the ease they give you when searching for information.
Sometimes the need for maintaining the community, and maitaining the integrity of a frum conflict, and there will always be different opinions for what is appropriate and what isn't.
The thing is that as moderator my opinion matters more than yours does in some situations
But I do listen
Those that wish to vote on the issue can do so here, and I will have a chuckle while reading the various opinions.
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Well I vote NOT to do it, and if you must, why is it only some threads?
There are many threads still here that actually are titled "why ****?", surely these are questions??????
The majority of threads on this Forum would most likely be someone asking a question, as long as they are of a technical nature, what is the problem??
There are many threads still here that actually are titled "why ****?", surely these are questions??????
The majority of threads on this Forum would most likely be someone asking a question, as long as they are of a technical nature, what is the problem??
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Why are questions of a technical nature not transferred from QUESTIONS to TECH LOG?
Is Jetdriver not pulling his weight?
Is TECHLOG a more prestigious forum?
Is there a "transfer quota" for moderators?
If Jetdriver transferred more threads would he eventually be promoted to a more hallowed turf?
Is Jetdriver not pulling his weight?
Is TECHLOG a more prestigious forum?
Is there a "transfer quota" for moderators?
If Jetdriver transferred more threads would he eventually be promoted to a more hallowed turf?
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Not pulling my weight !
Perish the thought Bally.
Most of the time keeping the forums in order is simply a matter of tidying topics into the forums where they will receive a better response.
Questions as a forum doesn't simply mean that the use of "?" makes it the appropriate forum for a posting necessarily. When deciding to move a topic the first criteria is does it properly fit the forum. If I have any doubt on that score, I then ask is it a question directed at professional Pilots.
There has to be some latitude and at the end of the day, as with any judgement there will be some critism and some errors. A great deal of time is spent keeping the many forums in order by all the admins and moderators and we won't always get it right.
Personally I do not want to transfer any more topics than I feel is necessary for the better presentation of the applicable forum. I also try not to play tennis with postings, by that I mean transfer a subject that has already been transferred from elsewhere. That in itself involves checking most of the other forums in some detail.
Some forums ( for example "African" ) have postings from members who may have a great deal of difficulty in accessing the internet. For that reason I adopt a very laissez faire attitude and am very reluctant to transfer posts to other places. That forum is a community forum and should be allowed a much more liberal form of moderation than some of the busier and perhaps more accessible forums.
There is no quota for transferring posts or if there is they haven't told me yet ! As checkboard says we do listen to any critisism.
As well as the ability to censor posts (which is really quite rare), and the ability to transfer posts between forums, most of the time the moderators are dealing with e-mail correspondence and general housekeeping matters.
As for moving on to "hallowed turf", I have noticed the grass needs cutting so I will end this reply.
Perish the thought Bally.
Most of the time keeping the forums in order is simply a matter of tidying topics into the forums where they will receive a better response.
Questions as a forum doesn't simply mean that the use of "?" makes it the appropriate forum for a posting necessarily. When deciding to move a topic the first criteria is does it properly fit the forum. If I have any doubt on that score, I then ask is it a question directed at professional Pilots.
There has to be some latitude and at the end of the day, as with any judgement there will be some critism and some errors. A great deal of time is spent keeping the many forums in order by all the admins and moderators and we won't always get it right.
Personally I do not want to transfer any more topics than I feel is necessary for the better presentation of the applicable forum. I also try not to play tennis with postings, by that I mean transfer a subject that has already been transferred from elsewhere. That in itself involves checking most of the other forums in some detail.
Some forums ( for example "African" ) have postings from members who may have a great deal of difficulty in accessing the internet. For that reason I adopt a very laissez faire attitude and am very reluctant to transfer posts to other places. That forum is a community forum and should be allowed a much more liberal form of moderation than some of the busier and perhaps more accessible forums.
There is no quota for transferring posts or if there is they haven't told me yet ! As checkboard says we do listen to any critisism.
As well as the ability to censor posts (which is really quite rare), and the ability to transfer posts between forums, most of the time the moderators are dealing with e-mail correspondence and general housekeeping matters.
As for moving on to "hallowed turf", I have noticed the grass needs cutting so I will end this reply.
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May I suggest the moderators all go off together for a fortnight on a desert island devoid of communications connections and let us see whether it makes the blindest bit of difference.
I'm a tolerant bloke. PPrune is tolerant community, but moderators almost get up my nose.
I'm sure they're only trying their best. The fact that nobody asked them to, or has the slightest desire for this kind of irritating do-gooding, is beside the point.
My advice is like the people who put 40 mph speed limits with multiple sets of speed cameras in the middle of the open countryside, close roads when nothing is being repaired, build pyramid size speed bumps on every inch of urban road surface - just be cool. There's nothing we can do about it.
However, whoever took away the grass skirt smilie is a dead man as soon as I find out where they live.
I'm a tolerant bloke. PPrune is tolerant community, but moderators almost get up my nose.
I'm sure they're only trying their best. The fact that nobody asked them to, or has the slightest desire for this kind of irritating do-gooding, is beside the point.
My advice is like the people who put 40 mph speed limits with multiple sets of speed cameras in the middle of the open countryside, close roads when nothing is being repaired, build pyramid size speed bumps on every inch of urban road surface - just be cool. There's nothing we can do about it.
However, whoever took away the grass skirt smilie is a dead man as soon as I find out where they live.
Dir. PPRuNe Line Service
There have been occasions where most of the moderators have been busy doing other things (such as earning a living) and the forums have been left to look after themselves.
Within a few days Rumours & News starts to fill up with "how do I get an upgrade?" and "Is a PA-28 a better aircraft to learn in than a C-152", Tech Log gets questions like "what is an APU?" and so on.
The moderators keep the forums focused and prevent them from turning into an anarchistic and useless mess.
---Mik
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
Within a few days Rumours & News starts to fill up with "how do I get an upgrade?" and "Is a PA-28 a better aircraft to learn in than a C-152", Tech Log gets questions like "what is an APU?" and so on.
The moderators keep the forums focused and prevent them from turning into an anarchistic and useless mess.
---Mik
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
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Within a few days Rumours & News starts to fill up with "how do I get an upgrade?" and "Is a PA-28 a better aircraft to learn in than a C-152", Tech Log gets questions like "what is an APU?" and so on.
The topics take up one line, on the topic index, no matter if you close it or not, unless you delete it all together.
So what is the point? If the topic is misplaced it will die out anyway and soon disappear. If not perhaps it's because people have a genuine interest in communicating about the topic in question. Isn't that what PPruNe is about - communicating?
There are lots of topic in R&N that is neither a rumour nor news e.g. Thanks ATC. Shouldn't that be in "Aircrew Notices (Misc)".
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: cosmo kramer ]
Dir. PPRuNe Line Service
To answer your points :
Yes, closed (moved) topics take up one line. And once closed they rapidly move down the list of topics and fall off the bottom. If off-topic posts don't get closed then they encourage others to post in the wrong forum.
Yes, PPRuNe is about communicating. And given the amount of traffic we have the correct forum has to be used.
Should "Thanks ATC" be in Aircrew Notices? The moderators have a very good feel for how a thread will develop, and in this case the thread now has info. on Medlink working well, ATC, decision making during a medical emergency, possible lack of medical care at LGW after 2100. Will the thread be moved at some point? It might be, more likely it will be left to die a natural death.
---Mik
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
Yes, closed (moved) topics take up one line. And once closed they rapidly move down the list of topics and fall off the bottom. If off-topic posts don't get closed then they encourage others to post in the wrong forum.
Yes, PPRuNe is about communicating. And given the amount of traffic we have the correct forum has to be used.
Should "Thanks ATC" be in Aircrew Notices? The moderators have a very good feel for how a thread will develop, and in this case the thread now has info. on Medlink working well, ATC, decision making during a medical emergency, possible lack of medical care at LGW after 2100. Will the thread be moved at some point? It might be, more likely it will be left to die a natural death.
---Mik
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Dispatcher ]
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OK OK
Though, I still think that some of the topics was wrongly closed, as they was of interest in the tech forum. Just wanted to voice my opinion.
You may close this thread now if you like
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: cosmo kramer ]
Though, I still think that some of the topics was wrongly closed, as they was of interest in the tech forum. Just wanted to voice my opinion.
You may close this thread now if you like
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: cosmo kramer ]
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You are not answering the basic point. (Which is s bit sad since you have set yourselves up to be superior to us riff-raff).
If a topic or thread is boring, or misplaced it will fall off the bottom. The computer does that for all of us. It is our completely democratic process for regulating the forums.
If on the other hand the topic is interesting for whatever reason it will stay up. People of sound mind (?) will be making independant judgements about whether they want to join in the dialogue.
If someone puts one on a sub-optimal board then they pay the penalty. They've hardly lost a limb so why do you feel a need to save their thread by moving it somewhere else where you think it might get a better airing. Did anyone ever ask for this service?
Why then do we need moderators? I don't mind you guys (too much) but I do defy you to justify your existince.
You haven't done so far
You are not answering the basic point. (Which is s bit sad since you have set yourselves up to be superior to us riff-raff).
If a topic or thread is boring, or misplaced it will fall off the bottom. The computer does that for all of us. It is our completely democratic process for regulating the forums.
If on the other hand the topic is interesting for whatever reason it will stay up. People of sound mind (?) will be making independant judgements about whether they want to join in the dialogue.
If someone puts one on a sub-optimal board then they pay the penalty. They've hardly lost a limb so why do you feel a need to save their thread by moving it somewhere else where you think it might get a better airing. Did anyone ever ask for this service?
Why then do we need moderators? I don't mind you guys (too much) but I do defy you to justify your existince.
You haven't done so far
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TES, you've had replies from moderators who written in ther normal self deprecating way regarding the work they do. So far this doesn't seem to have made the point adequately, at least in a way that satisfies you anyway.
They are simply editorial decisions and you accept these in every other form of media. What's different about PPRuNe is that most decisions are visible - you rarely get to see them in papers or on TV but they're made all the same. For the first eighteen months of PPRuNe we worked in exactly that way. Danny and I created each day's pages and decided what would be on view.
Editorial work is now post production because of the automated board but all the original principles remain the same. We provide the whole system for the readers of PPRuNe. We decide the direction it goes in and maintain a guiding hand. It's fast and flexible - that's the way we work.
If enough people don't like the decisions made then a publication will fail. With 100,000 individual readers per week there is little sign of that so far and I hope that you will accept that our efforts to keep the focus right for each section are our both our right and responsibility.
If that last sentence doesn't sit well with you it's because you've made the assuption this is a democracy. This is not the case. Further, PPruNe has never, ever advertised. As with everyone else reading you found us and not the other way around.
We do the work that makes the place exist. We make the judgements and take the flack that's associated with it.
If anyone has a violent antipathy to moderated sites I really would suggest a week in the world of the newsgroups as a reality check. Additionally there are an estimated 50,000 discussion boards out there. Everyone has a choice and it is our choice to run PPRuNe the way we do.
That's how it was when PPRuNe got its first 700 hits in three months and remains the same now that we get 700 hits in three minutes.
Rob Lloyd
[ 23 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
They are simply editorial decisions and you accept these in every other form of media. What's different about PPRuNe is that most decisions are visible - you rarely get to see them in papers or on TV but they're made all the same. For the first eighteen months of PPRuNe we worked in exactly that way. Danny and I created each day's pages and decided what would be on view.
Editorial work is now post production because of the automated board but all the original principles remain the same. We provide the whole system for the readers of PPRuNe. We decide the direction it goes in and maintain a guiding hand. It's fast and flexible - that's the way we work.
If enough people don't like the decisions made then a publication will fail. With 100,000 individual readers per week there is little sign of that so far and I hope that you will accept that our efforts to keep the focus right for each section are our both our right and responsibility.
If that last sentence doesn't sit well with you it's because you've made the assuption this is a democracy. This is not the case. Further, PPruNe has never, ever advertised. As with everyone else reading you found us and not the other way around.
We do the work that makes the place exist. We make the judgements and take the flack that's associated with it.
If anyone has a violent antipathy to moderated sites I really would suggest a week in the world of the newsgroups as a reality check. Additionally there are an estimated 50,000 discussion boards out there. Everyone has a choice and it is our choice to run PPRuNe the way we do.
That's how it was when PPRuNe got its first 700 hits in three months and remains the same now that we get 700 hits in three minutes.
Rob Lloyd
[ 23 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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Good grief!! I go and do a few other PPRuNe things and when I come back I find that my fellow mods have been doing a holding action - thanks guys 
Actually, they have done it better than I would have but as for us mods going away on desert island somewhere TES - if you pay we'll go. But then what would happen? All hell would break loose.
See! That's the point. Unless the threads are moderated people take unbelievable liberties with PPRuNe, things that you may never hear about. So we have to monitor everything and be wherever.
I spend, all told, about 7 hours every day on PPRuNe, scouting through the threads, which is very very tedious, but it has to be done. Simply because it is impossible to rely on people being nice - let alone being sensible.
However, for those people who ARE generally reliable and mostly nice, and nearly always sensible, it must be annoying having us moderators around. But since the rule of thumb is that one post begets another. The 'another' will probably the one that spoils it for all.
Oh well! Life's a bitch, and we know that better than most, but just so long as you know there is nothing personal, unless it is YOU or YOU then we have to be around.
See ya! Or maybe not! As the case may be.
Actually, they have done it better than I would have but as for us mods going away on desert island somewhere TES - if you pay we'll go. But then what would happen? All hell would break loose.
See! That's the point. Unless the threads are moderated people take unbelievable liberties with PPRuNe, things that you may never hear about. So we have to monitor everything and be wherever.
I spend, all told, about 7 hours every day on PPRuNe, scouting through the threads, which is very very tedious, but it has to be done. Simply because it is impossible to rely on people being nice - let alone being sensible.
However, for those people who ARE generally reliable and mostly nice, and nearly always sensible, it must be annoying having us moderators around. But since the rule of thumb is that one post begets another. The 'another' will probably the one that spoils it for all.
Oh well! Life's a bitch, and we know that better than most, but just so long as you know there is nothing personal, unless it is YOU or YOU
then we have to be around.See ya! Or maybe not! As the case may be.
