British Space Programme
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Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Englands newest City
British Space Programme
I have just finished reading a very good book. Its not about aircraft but its about the history of the UK rocket programme 1950 to 1971. Its called "A Vertical Empire" By C.N.Hill. Its full of interesting information from the Saunders Roe Rocket planes to the Blue Streak IRBM and Its use as a first stage in the ELDO programme. It is an eye opener about the lack of will from the politicians and the frustration of the engineers and designers. In spite of govenment the programme was a huge success. The launchers and rocket engines were the equel of anything the Americans and Russians were using at the time. Its well worth a read. If only to see How short sighted polticians are. Incidently the ISBN is 1-86094-268-7. 
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
Safety First!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 516
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From: New Zealand
Seems a lot of great British inventions and designs were sidelined due to the cheaper option and availability of using American equipment and aid. Thank heaven the French pushed the Brits into continuing with Concorde. I wouldn't be able to stand the bleating about it if the Yanks had done it. Theres a lot of British designs that the Yanks have taken as their own too, such as the Harrier. Oh well.
Kermie
Kermie
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: RAF Lincolnshire
If you ever get the chance, then have a look round RAF Spadeadam, on the Cumbria Northumberland boarder. Quite an eye opener! Last time I was there, still got the first stage on mounts next to the old test rig. Almost as if the guys left work on Friday expecting to come back Monday, and never did! 
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: USA
More than happy to use the Harrier, though it cost a fortune to translate the manuals from English into American. Guess that also makes it more or less economical for both RAF and USN to continue to buy them. How come nobody else (except Spain) has seen the superiority of their design and bought them by the boatload?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Englands newest City
Ratboy you have forgotten India and Italy also. Incidently its the US marines that use the Harrier not the US Navy. You should have known that being American.
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: rover2701 ]
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: USA
Rover:
I said bought, not use. The aircraft inventory for the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps are one, bought by one organization, managed as one. For that matter look closely at Marine aviators, they wear gold wings because they are Naval aviators, not bus drivers. Forgot India and Italy, should have remembered them. Did Spain ever get any/many AV8Bs, there was a case to sell them but the cost was high and they were unsure whether to go with it?
I said bought, not use. The aircraft inventory for the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps are one, bought by one organization, managed as one. For that matter look closely at Marine aviators, they wear gold wings because they are Naval aviators, not bus drivers. Forgot India and Italy, should have remembered them. Did Spain ever get any/many AV8Bs, there was a case to sell them but the cost was high and they were unsure whether to go with it?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
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From: Peripatetic
Spainbought AV-8Bs then B+s and is upgrading the Bs to B+s. Theysold on their old Matadors to Thailand.
See:
http://mylima.com/airforce/s2.htm#SPAIN
http://www.warships1.com/SPANcvl02_PDAsturias_specs.htm
http://mylima.com/airforce/t.htm#THAILAND http://www.warships1.com/THAIr911_CNaruebet_specs.htm
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: ORAC ]
See:
http://mylima.com/airforce/s2.htm#SPAIN
http://www.warships1.com/SPANcvl02_PDAsturias_specs.htm
http://mylima.com/airforce/t.htm#THAILAND http://www.warships1.com/THAIr911_CNaruebet_specs.htm
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: ORAC ]
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 104
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From: Birmingham, England (sometimes)
Can I nudge this back on topic by saying that when I was a young engineer (before I even got my first socket-set, though I DID have a slide rule - still have actually) I worked on 'our' satellite which was the pinged off into space from Woomera on our very own launcher. This was after the bloody politicians had cancelled the whole show.
Anybody interested can see the last of the launchers (R5?) in South Kensington. Oh, what might have been...
anyone else out there care to add memories ?
VnV...
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: VnV2178B ]
Anybody interested can see the last of the launchers (R5?) in South Kensington. Oh, what might have been...
anyone else out there care to add memories ?
VnV...
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: VnV2178B ]
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Englands newest City
It is in fact Black Arrow R4. R0 was the first test launch. This was destroyed just after lift off. The reason was an open circuit feed back loop in the attitude control system. This caused two of the engines to gimble fully both ways while trying to correct trajectory. Destroyed by the range safety oficer. R1 was a success,tested both first and second stages with dummy third stage. R2 was an orbital attempt with a satellite called ORBA. This failed due to the second stage shutting down 15 seconds early due to a leak in the HTP fuel tank. R3 was completely successful and orbited the Sattelite PROSPERO. Which is still up there. But as you state our wonderful backward thinking government had by then cancelled the project.
